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I can say I would not want to live in a society that "accommodates" the needs of rapists, murderers, child molesters as well as the various petty criminals. Si

I can say I would not want to live in a society that "accommodates" the needs of rapists, murderers, child molesters as well as the various petty criminals. Sin City was a dark film, I never found it a model for cultural structure.

throwawayxbe8 9y ago
What about one that accommodates people who possess marijuana? What about a society that accommodates people who have opioid addictions and need medical help? I think you have a rather skewed idea of the majority of our prison population. I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
  > I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters. HINT = 15% of the prison population in California are sex offenders.
  - throwawayfdf 9y ago
    Which bass-ackwards definition of "most" are you using, friend?
  - alsetmusic 9y ago
    >> I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters. > HINT = 15% of the prison population in California are sex offenders. Rapists and child molesters would both fall under the sex offender category, meaning 85% of prisoners are not convicted of those crimes (according to your post, which lacks citation). Are you indicating that more than one in three California prisoners are convicted of murder? It sounds like you’re making a case for more than 35% of prisoners as murderes (15 + 35 = 50%). I’m not comfortable with that assumption without links to data.
    - fisherjeff 9y ago
      This definitely doesn't support their point, but the State of California's report[0] turns out to be generally fascinating. More to the point of this thread, sex offenders and murderers make up ~26% of their prison population. [0] http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Reports_Research/Offender_Information_Services_Branch/Annual/CalPris/CALPRISd2010.pdf http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Reports_Research/Offender_Information... EDIT: homicide != murder
    - newsmania 9y ago
      I learned from a cop that in New York, if you pee in a public place, you are a sex offender. Basically the cop said he would give the homeless people a citation for something else because it’s crazy to make someone a sex offender for that. I wonder how many of the sex offenders are a real danger to society, and how many just got put in due to the ridiculous amount of laws we have.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    ...So you agree? I'm confused.
    - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
      I was very unclear in that comment, I apologize. I was myself confused by the comment I was replying to. I don't like when people say "hint, most people x". I wanted to get better information about what the actual statistics were, because I didn't know what percent of the prison population were sex offenders, which was 15%. This is my source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/16/sex-offenders-killed-higher-rate-california-prison https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/16/sex-offender... I'm not sure what my position on this issue is. But it appears that a decent percentage of people in prison in California are serious criminals, and although some are definitely marijuana offenders that should probably be released, I don't think its fair to call that the majority of the people in the prison system.
  - literallycancer 9y ago
    Might have something to do with labeling two teens that have sex as rapists.
- whathaschanged 9y ago
  We got Al Capone for tax evasion. Sometimes the laws you see as unjust are there for a reason. In California, for instance, a DUI has a part A and B so if they drop one part you always get convicted of the other.
  - creviere 9y ago
    Are you suggesting that most offenders of what are typically seen as 'minor' or 'victimless' crimes are actually guilty of more serious crimes, but for whatever reason cannot be caught or prosecuted?
    - thanatropism 9y ago
      He's saying that minor crimes are the element of indeterminacy that gives the legal system wiggle room to dole out arbitrary punishment when actual circumstances almost, but not fully warrant normal punishment. A classic example is Al Capone caught for tax evasion. A more recent one is OJ Simpson jailed for some break-and-entering bullshit because everyone wants to punish him for those famous murders.
      - bogomipz 9y ago
        >" A more recent one is OJ Simpson jailed for some break-and-entering bullshit because everyone wants to punish him for those famous murders." I'm sorry "breaking and entering bullshit"? The crime was armed robbery and kidnapping. And it was OJ Simpson who said that nobody could leave the room which brought up the kidnapping charge. All of this actually happened. Nobody disputes these claims. Nothing to do with breaking and entering but much more serious crimes.[1] If a family member of yours was robbed in their hotel room at gun point would it still be "bullshit"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_robbery_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_robbery_case
        thanatropism 9y ago
        I saw a tv show that presented those facts, yes. It also features the Goldman family celebrating that he got any kind of jail time at all. And it was a long sentence too!
- yodsanklai 9y ago
  > most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters. I assume there are also a lot of people in prison that aren't rapists or murderers but still cause a lot of troubles if left to their own device. What should be done with these ones? I agree prison is cruel and inhuman and I'm all for better detention conditions, but I don't think it's realistic to suggest we should leave these people walk freely (or to suggest that they don't exist). What are the alternatives?
  - sslayer 9y ago
    If only we had the equivalent of Australia but in space....
- bogomipz 9y ago
  >"What about one that accommodates people who possess marijuana? What about a society that accommodates people who have opioid addictions and need medical help?" Marijuana at least in the US, is an example of where society is actually changing to accommodate people: http://www.governing.com/gov-data/state-marijuana-laws-map-medical-recreational.html http://www.governing.com/gov-data/state-marijuana-laws-map-m... Also the Opioid epidemic is finally getting the attention it deserves at the federal level in the US. I think we will see an end to the cruel policies that are in place: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-opioid-commission-listened-to-public-health-experts/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-opioid-commissio...
stcredzero 9y ago
I can say I would not want to live in a society that "accommodates" the needs of rapists, murderers, child molesters as well as the various petty criminals. The communists did this in the Gulag system, by putting the rapists and murders -- who had obviously been victimized by the previous system -- in charge.
- literallycancer 9y ago
  Pretty sure that wasn't intentional. It's just what happens in dangerous times -- dangerous people prosper.
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    Pretty sure that wasn't intentional. It's just what happens in dangerous times -- dangerous people prosper. It was deliberate and ideologically driven. The people who were imprisoned by the previous repressive system must have been innocent victims of that system.

throwawayxbe8 9y ago

What about one that accommodates people who possess marijuana? What about a society that accommodates people who have opioid addictions and need medical help? I think you have a rather skewed idea of the majority of our prison population. I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
> I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters. HINT = 15% of the prison population in California are sex offenders.
- throwawayfdf 9y ago
  Which bass-ackwards definition of "most" are you using, friend?
- alsetmusic 9y ago
  >> I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters. > HINT = 15% of the prison population in California are sex offenders. Rapists and child molesters would both fall under the sex offender category, meaning 85% of prisoners are not convicted of those crimes (according to your post, which lacks citation). Are you indicating that more than one in three California prisoners are convicted of murder? It sounds like you’re making a case for more than 35% of prisoners as murderes (15 + 35 = 50%). I’m not comfortable with that assumption without links to data.
  - fisherjeff 9y ago
    This definitely doesn't support their point, but the State of California's report[0] turns out to be generally fascinating. More to the point of this thread, sex offenders and murderers make up ~26% of their prison population. [0] http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Reports_Research/Offender_Information_Services_Branch/Annual/CalPris/CALPRISd2010.pdf http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Reports_Research/Offender_Information... EDIT: homicide != murder
  - newsmania 9y ago
    I learned from a cop that in New York, if you pee in a public place, you are a sex offender. Basically the cop said he would give the homeless people a citation for something else because it’s crazy to make someone a sex offender for that. I wonder how many of the sex offenders are a real danger to society, and how many just got put in due to the ridiculous amount of laws we have.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  ...So you agree? I'm confused.
  - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
    I was very unclear in that comment, I apologize. I was myself confused by the comment I was replying to. I don't like when people say "hint, most people x". I wanted to get better information about what the actual statistics were, because I didn't know what percent of the prison population were sex offenders, which was 15%. This is my source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/16/sex-offenders-killed-higher-rate-california-prison https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/16/sex-offender... I'm not sure what my position on this issue is. But it appears that a decent percentage of people in prison in California are serious criminals, and although some are definitely marijuana offenders that should probably be released, I don't think its fair to call that the majority of the people in the prison system.
- literallycancer 9y ago
  Might have something to do with labeling two teens that have sex as rapists.
whathaschanged 9y ago
We got Al Capone for tax evasion. Sometimes the laws you see as unjust are there for a reason. In California, for instance, a DUI has a part A and B so if they drop one part you always get convicted of the other.
- creviere 9y ago
  Are you suggesting that most offenders of what are typically seen as 'minor' or 'victimless' crimes are actually guilty of more serious crimes, but for whatever reason cannot be caught or prosecuted?
  - thanatropism 9y ago
    He's saying that minor crimes are the element of indeterminacy that gives the legal system wiggle room to dole out arbitrary punishment when actual circumstances almost, but not fully warrant normal punishment. A classic example is Al Capone caught for tax evasion. A more recent one is OJ Simpson jailed for some break-and-entering bullshit because everyone wants to punish him for those famous murders.
    - bogomipz 9y ago
      >" A more recent one is OJ Simpson jailed for some break-and-entering bullshit because everyone wants to punish him for those famous murders." I'm sorry "breaking and entering bullshit"? The crime was armed robbery and kidnapping. And it was OJ Simpson who said that nobody could leave the room which brought up the kidnapping charge. All of this actually happened. Nobody disputes these claims. Nothing to do with breaking and entering but much more serious crimes.[1] If a family member of yours was robbed in their hotel room at gun point would it still be "bullshit"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_robbery_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_robbery_case
      - thanatropism 9y ago
        I saw a tv show that presented those facts, yes. It also features the Goldman family celebrating that he got any kind of jail time at all. And it was a long sentence too!
yodsanklai 9y ago
> most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters. I assume there are also a lot of people in prison that aren't rapists or murderers but still cause a lot of troubles if left to their own device. What should be done with these ones? I agree prison is cruel and inhuman and I'm all for better detention conditions, but I don't think it's realistic to suggest we should leave these people walk freely (or to suggest that they don't exist). What are the alternatives?
- sslayer 9y ago
  If only we had the equivalent of Australia but in space....
bogomipz 9y ago
>"What about one that accommodates people who possess marijuana? What about a society that accommodates people who have opioid addictions and need medical help?" Marijuana at least in the US, is an example of where society is actually changing to accommodate people: http://www.governing.com/gov-data/state-marijuana-laws-map-medical-recreational.html http://www.governing.com/gov-data/state-marijuana-laws-map-m... Also the Opioid epidemic is finally getting the attention it deserves at the federal level in the US. I think we will see an end to the cruel policies that are in place: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-opioid-commission-listened-to-public-health-experts/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-opioid-commissio...

stcredzero 9y ago

I can say I would not want to live in a society that "accommodates" the needs of rapists, murderers, child molesters as well as the various petty criminals. The communists did this in the Gulag system, by putting the rapists and murders -- who had obviously been victimized by the previous system -- in charge.

literallycancer 9y ago
Pretty sure that wasn't intentional. It's just what happens in dangerous times -- dangerous people prosper.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  Pretty sure that wasn't intentional. It's just what happens in dangerous times -- dangerous people prosper. It was deliberate and ideologically driven. The people who were imprisoned by the previous repressive system must have been innocent victims of that system.