4 ms·

Microsoft surprises by licensing ARM to create its own chips

18 points by FluidDjango 16y ago

napierzaza 16y ago
Is MS only 2 years behind on this? Usually they're around 4 aren't they? I imagine we'll see some mock ups anytime soon. Take that iPad/iPhone.
VengefulCynic 16y ago
Checking over at https://careers.microsoft.com/ https://careers.microsoft.com/ there's no sudden flurry of hardware or low-level software engineering job postings to go with this announcement. Of course, it's not like M$ has a shortage of those types between their Xbox and Zune platforms.
PhrosTT 16y ago
http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:ARMH http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:ARMH
dman 16y ago
Would be awesome if microsoft pulls an apple and unifies windows and windows mobile under a single platform. That and porting the .net runtime to linux/osx/bsd would mean microsoft would make the microsoft stack very interesting all over again.
- MichaelGG 16y ago
  Well WinPhone7 seems to be heavily pushing Silverlight and XNA, which also run on the desktop. So there's some unification there. As far as MS releasing a full .NET for other OSes? I can't ever see that happening. Why would they want their army of VB/C# "enterprise" developers being able to deploy without spending on Windows licenses? Their support of Novell/Mono means people can still choose .NET for some projects; probably people that might not have used .NET otherwise. But at least the bulk of business apps developed will still need Windows (and probably SQL Server).
  - dman 16y ago
    Low cost deployment is the new reality. a) Without having a low cost deployment option the competiveness of microsoft is greatly reduced in the big data market. b) It might take Microsoft 3-4 years to work out the business model but having a portable .net framework with low / zero cost deployment would make apps written in .net viable in sectors where they dont have a chance currently - embedded , big data. c) The few startup people ive talked to have all worried about "theoretical portability", ie they might never use the portability but they would like the programs to work on different OS's. d) OSX actually benefits greatly from its unixy structural similarity to linux / bsd. Most developers I see here in NYC develop on osx and deploy on linux (linode, heroku etc) e) While Mono is a great project, having a blessed / direct version of .net would reduce the business risk in the mind of customers.
pietrofmaggi 16y ago
I hope not, but it looks like this might be a case of Apple-envy. Microsoft was evaluating ARM for server usage, but do they need to build the SoC them self? IIRC The last time they build some complex chips the result was far from perfect http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4077187/The-truth-about-last-year-s-Xbox-360-recall http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4077187/The-truth-ab...
- rbanffy 16y ago
  Why would an ARM-based Windows server be desirable? What role would it take? Web server? Print server? File server? "SQL Server Enterprise ARM-cluster edition"? It doesn't add up. Xbox-style devices would sound more likely. The Xbox360 was successful in showing developers can make a bunch of low-performance cores perform adequately in games. I think a multi-core ARM coupled to a decent GPU would be quite a nice gaming platform.
  - adbge 16y ago
    An ARM-based Windows server would be desirable for anyone who is already using a Windows server and wants to maximize their performance per watt. I'm not sure if ARM is powerful enough to support a next generation console platform. The current Xbox 360 has 3 cores clocked at 3.2 GHz supporting two threads per core, while the most powerful ARM processor, ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore, has 4 cores that can each be clocked to "up to 1 GHz". Processors are a lot more complicated than just clock speed, of course, but I think it's readily apparent that ARM is less powerful than the current Xenon processor in the 360. Perhaps Microsoft could drop in several ARM processors or rely more heavily on the GPU. I think it's more likely that this is a move to create a powerful in house ARM chip to use in their Zune HD and maybe for a to-be-announced mobile platform.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      > anyone who is already using a Windows server The only commonality is Windows itself. Windows NT on RISC processors has proved to be limiting in that almost no software was available to platforms other than Intel. This means the only functions a Windows on ARM server would be able to handle would be those of Windows itself and the software Microsoft choses to port. It's kind of a copycat reflex. Apple is investing a lot in ARM, porting a big chunk of their OS to it, so Microsoft is convinced it must do the same, regardless of having a viable product.
illumin8 16y ago
This is for Windows phone 7 - and possibly a tablet device. Microsoft probably realized that it's a bad idea to shoehorn Windows 7 into an x86 tablet and is going to try to scale Windows Phone 7 up to a tablet. Everyone else can play "me too" and copy Apple...
- rbanffy 16y ago
  As someone else said before, we should expect mock-ups and movies showing this bright future soon. Real products may take a while. Successful products... well... I wouldn't hold my breath.
marze 16y ago
No surprise. Microsoft usually does everything Apple does, a few years delayed and not as well.
wlievens 16y ago
... and ARM's stock raises with another 15 percent. Compare it to 12 months ago and say "ooooh".

18 points by FluidDjango 16y ago

Is MS only 2 years behind on this? Usually they're around 4 aren't they? I imagine we'll see some mock ups anytime soon. Take that iPad/iPhone.

VengefulCynic 16y ago

Checking over at https://careers.microsoft.com/ https://careers.microsoft.com/ there's no sudden flurry of hardware or low-level software engineering job postings to go with this announcement. Of course, it's not like M$ has a shortage of those types between their Xbox and Zune platforms.

PhrosTT 16y ago

http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:ARMH http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:ARMH

dman 16y ago

Would be awesome if microsoft pulls an apple and unifies windows and windows mobile under a single platform. That and porting the .net runtime to linux/osx/bsd would mean microsoft would make the microsoft stack very interesting all over again.

MichaelGG 16y ago
Well WinPhone7 seems to be heavily pushing Silverlight and XNA, which also run on the desktop. So there's some unification there. As far as MS releasing a full .NET for other OSes? I can't ever see that happening. Why would they want their army of VB/C# "enterprise" developers being able to deploy without spending on Windows licenses? Their support of Novell/Mono means people can still choose .NET for some projects; probably people that might not have used .NET otherwise. But at least the bulk of business apps developed will still need Windows (and probably SQL Server).
- dman 16y ago
  Low cost deployment is the new reality. a) Without having a low cost deployment option the competiveness of microsoft is greatly reduced in the big data market. b) It might take Microsoft 3-4 years to work out the business model but having a portable .net framework with low / zero cost deployment would make apps written in .net viable in sectors where they dont have a chance currently - embedded , big data. c) The few startup people ive talked to have all worried about "theoretical portability", ie they might never use the portability but they would like the programs to work on different OS's. d) OSX actually benefits greatly from its unixy structural similarity to linux / bsd. Most developers I see here in NYC develop on osx and deploy on linux (linode, heroku etc) e) While Mono is a great project, having a blessed / direct version of .net would reduce the business risk in the mind of customers.

pietrofmaggi 16y ago

I hope not, but it looks like this might be a case of Apple-envy. Microsoft was evaluating ARM for server usage, but do they need to build the SoC them self? IIRC The last time they build some complex chips the result was far from perfect http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4077187/The-truth-about-last-year-s-Xbox-360-recall http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4077187/The-truth-ab...

rbanffy 16y ago
Why would an ARM-based Windows server be desirable? What role would it take? Web server? Print server? File server? "SQL Server Enterprise ARM-cluster edition"? It doesn't add up. Xbox-style devices would sound more likely. The Xbox360 was successful in showing developers can make a bunch of low-performance cores perform adequately in games. I think a multi-core ARM coupled to a decent GPU would be quite a nice gaming platform.
- adbge 16y ago
  An ARM-based Windows server would be desirable for anyone who is already using a Windows server and wants to maximize their performance per watt. I'm not sure if ARM is powerful enough to support a next generation console platform. The current Xbox 360 has 3 cores clocked at 3.2 GHz supporting two threads per core, while the most powerful ARM processor, ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore, has 4 cores that can each be clocked to "up to 1 GHz". Processors are a lot more complicated than just clock speed, of course, but I think it's readily apparent that ARM is less powerful than the current Xenon processor in the 360. Perhaps Microsoft could drop in several ARM processors or rely more heavily on the GPU. I think it's more likely that this is a move to create a powerful in house ARM chip to use in their Zune HD and maybe for a to-be-announced mobile platform.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > anyone who is already using a Windows server The only commonality is Windows itself. Windows NT on RISC processors has proved to be limiting in that almost no software was available to platforms other than Intel. This means the only functions a Windows on ARM server would be able to handle would be those of Windows itself and the software Microsoft choses to port. It's kind of a copycat reflex. Apple is investing a lot in ARM, porting a big chunk of their OS to it, so Microsoft is convinced it must do the same, regardless of having a viable product.

illumin8 16y ago

This is for Windows phone 7 - and possibly a tablet device. Microsoft probably realized that it's a bad idea to shoehorn Windows 7 into an x86 tablet and is going to try to scale Windows Phone 7 up to a tablet. Everyone else can play "me too" and copy Apple...

rbanffy 16y ago
As someone else said before, we should expect mock-ups and movies showing this bright future soon. Real products may take a while. Successful products... well... I wouldn't hold my breath.

marze 16y ago

No surprise. Microsoft usually does everything Apple does, a few years delayed and not as well.

wlievens 16y ago

... and ARM's stock raises with another 15 percent. Compare it to 12 months ago and say "ooooh".