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> Wow, shocking to read of such deep capitulation from a country like Norway China forces every country that it has normalised relations with to adhere to the

by imron 9y ago

> Wow, shocking to read of such deep capitulation from a country like Norway China forces every country that it has normalised relations with to adhere to the 'One China' policy. Does your country have a Chinese embassy in it? Guess what, your country adheres to the 'One China' policy too.

semperdark 9y ago
Perhaps, but in many cases recognition that there should be "One China" also comes with the implication that Taiwan's government should be the one ruling the "One China". Did you read the linked article? Norway's statements were absolutely humiliating, most countries absolutely do not go that far.
- imron 9y ago
  > Perhaps, but in many cases recognition that there should be "One China" also comes with the implication that Taiwan's government should be the one ruling the "One China". Correct. All it is, is the acknowledgement that there aren't two countries called China, and if you want to do business with China, then the People's Republic of China is the only China you are allowed to officially recognise. > Did you read the linked article? Yes. Other countries do go that far too.
Geekette 9y ago
Pretty sure other countries' recognition of (which does not necessarily equate to acceptance or support of) China's position on this do not extend to the level of sovereign embarrassment and capitulation outlined in the post.
- imron 9y ago
  Other countries capitulate rather easily also: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/11/dalai-lama-pope-francis_n_6312012.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/11/dalai-lama-pope-fra... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/tibet/9717544/David-Cameron-banned-ministers-from-speaking-to-Dalai-Lama.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/tibet/9717544... http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/30/pm-has-no-plans-meet-dalai-lama-china-warns-against-meeting http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/30/pm-has-no-plan... And there are many more examples. As China's influence grows, so too will the list of examples. Note: I'm not in support of this, just stating the current reality.
- barkingcat 9y ago
  Pretty sure you are mistaken. All countries that have normalized relations with China have to officially abide by the One China policy. If not, they will pull trade, or go to a state of de facto war with you. This is why Canada does not have a Taiwanese embassy. Instead, there are Taiwanese Trade offices which act unofficially as embassies in everything but name. In all countries with Chinese embassies, this is the case.
- jonnathanson 9y ago
  As barkingcat suggests, pretty much every country on the planet that has normalized diplomatic relations with China formally accepts the One China policy. This is part of China's chess strategy for forcing the world to accept its ownership of Taiwan. I will go out on a limb for a second and suggest that the day will come soon enough when the United States formally bends the knee on this issue as well. We are headed in that direction much faster than anyone anticipated. The 'free world' has chosen to worship the Almighty Dollar as its lord and sovereign. China is where most of your dollars come from now. Ergo, China has the mandate of market-capitalist heaven, and you work for China now.
  - barkingcat 9y ago
    Yup the US is not far behind. As far as "sovereign embarrassment," there is no such thing. If you want Chinese trade and embassy relations, you put out whatever news releases, go on television, press conferences, and at the UN General Assembly you stand up and proclaim exactly what Norway has said. It's an "embarrassment" in the poster's mind, but pretty much every country has done it. Then you go behind China's back and buy Taiwanese stuff and talk to the President of Taiwan in backchannels because everyone needs cpu's, microchips, and cell phones. The level of hypocrisy is pretty high in global politics. I do not agree with this, but it is the state of the world.
mikeash 9y ago
It's one thing to officially adhere to "One China" and quite another to shun respected people that China doesn't like. Do other countries do that second one? The US seems to have no problem allowing the Dalai Lama to meet the President, for example.
- imron 9y ago
  > Do other countries do that second one? Unfortunately yes: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/30/pm-has-no-plans-meet-dalai-lama-china-warns-against-meeting http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/30/pm-has-no-plan...
- fhood 9y ago
  Well, the US can piss off China with relative impunity. We represent 18 percent of their exports, and their currency is pegged to the dollar. Norway is less influential.
  - imron 9y ago
    Relative, yes, but not total. When the Dalai Lama met with Obama, it was a 'private' visit not an official one and they met in the Map room rather than the Oval Office, which apparently has different diplomatic implications. Even with all its clout, the US still needs to dance around the issue.

by imron 9y ago

semperdark 9y ago

Perhaps, but in many cases recognition that there should be "One China" also comes with the implication that Taiwan's government should be the one ruling the "One China". Did you read the linked article? Norway's statements were absolutely humiliating, most countries absolutely do not go that far.

imron 9y ago
> Perhaps, but in many cases recognition that there should be "One China" also comes with the implication that Taiwan's government should be the one ruling the "One China". Correct. All it is, is the acknowledgement that there aren't two countries called China, and if you want to do business with China, then the People's Republic of China is the only China you are allowed to officially recognise. > Did you read the linked article? Yes. Other countries do go that far too.

Geekette 9y ago

Pretty sure other countries' recognition of (which does not necessarily equate to acceptance or support of) China's position on this do not extend to the level of sovereign embarrassment and capitulation outlined in the post.

imron 9y ago
Other countries capitulate rather easily also: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/11/dalai-lama-pope-francis_n_6312012.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/11/dalai-lama-pope-fra... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/tibet/9717544/David-Cameron-banned-ministers-from-speaking-to-Dalai-Lama.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/tibet/9717544... http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/30/pm-has-no-plans-meet-dalai-lama-china-warns-against-meeting http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/30/pm-has-no-plan... And there are many more examples. As China's influence grows, so too will the list of examples. Note: I'm not in support of this, just stating the current reality.
barkingcat 9y ago
Pretty sure you are mistaken. All countries that have normalized relations with China have to officially abide by the One China policy. If not, they will pull trade, or go to a state of de facto war with you. This is why Canada does not have a Taiwanese embassy. Instead, there are Taiwanese Trade offices which act unofficially as embassies in everything but name. In all countries with Chinese embassies, this is the case.
jonnathanson 9y ago
As barkingcat suggests, pretty much every country on the planet that has normalized diplomatic relations with China formally accepts the One China policy. This is part of China's chess strategy for forcing the world to accept its ownership of Taiwan. I will go out on a limb for a second and suggest that the day will come soon enough when the United States formally bends the knee on this issue as well. We are headed in that direction much faster than anyone anticipated. The 'free world' has chosen to worship the Almighty Dollar as its lord and sovereign. China is where most of your dollars come from now. Ergo, China has the mandate of market-capitalist heaven, and you work for China now.
- barkingcat 9y ago
  Yup the US is not far behind. As far as "sovereign embarrassment," there is no such thing. If you want Chinese trade and embassy relations, you put out whatever news releases, go on television, press conferences, and at the UN General Assembly you stand up and proclaim exactly what Norway has said. It's an "embarrassment" in the poster's mind, but pretty much every country has done it. Then you go behind China's back and buy Taiwanese stuff and talk to the President of Taiwan in backchannels because everyone needs cpu's, microchips, and cell phones. The level of hypocrisy is pretty high in global politics. I do not agree with this, but it is the state of the world.

mikeash 9y ago

It's one thing to officially adhere to "One China" and quite another to shun respected people that China doesn't like. Do other countries do that second one? The US seems to have no problem allowing the Dalai Lama to meet the President, for example.

imron 9y ago
> Do other countries do that second one? Unfortunately yes: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/30/pm-has-no-plans-meet-dalai-lama-china-warns-against-meeting http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/30/pm-has-no-plan...
fhood 9y ago
Well, the US can piss off China with relative impunity. We represent 18 percent of their exports, and their currency is pegged to the dollar. Norway is less influential.
- imron 9y ago
  Relative, yes, but not total. When the Dalai Lama met with Obama, it was a 'private' visit not an official one and they met in the Map room rather than the Oval Office, which apparently has different diplomatic implications. Even with all its clout, the US still needs to dance around the issue.