4 ms·

The real oppression is terrorist attacks that leave people in fear of their safety. Not oppression: arresting some radicalised extremist for preparing themselv

The real oppression is terrorist attacks that leave people in fear of their safety. Not oppression: arresting some radicalised extremist for preparing themselves with terrorist training manuals and suchlike.

Joe-Z 9y ago
If oppression stems from people fostering fear in others, then the news outlets are the real oppressors. Let's face it: Terrorism is really a minor threat to almost all people's safety, yet it's constantly evoked to further restrict people's liberties.
- pjc50 9y ago
  It's a real challenge for the government to write laws against "hate preachers" without including Rod Liddle or Katie "final solution" Hopkins.
  - mosselman 9y ago
    Instead of writing laws to 'protect' people from 'hate preachers' it would be a lot more effective if we use information and education to teach people, from a young age, to be critical and confident thinkers. One time in the streets of New York there was some racist shouting things at people of a certain ethnicity, picking them out from the crowd and calling them 'baby rapers'. Several people of different races shouted at him to "shut the fuck up". Those people obviously weren't swayed into thinking that all people of that specific race were indeed 'baby rapers'. I would rather live in a society where people are allowed to say that the holocaust didn't happen and have them be judged as the idiots they are, than a society where saying things that are deemed as 'extreme' by the government is illegal.
- edanm 9y ago
  Is there a chance that the reason terrorism is so minor a threat is because of the restrictions in liberty? I'm not saying I like it, but just saying "well terrorism isn't a threat" makes as much sense as saying "no one's every robbed our bank, so we can stop locking the door and having a guard posted outside" without giving further context.
badsectoracula 9y ago
That is what happens now. Tomorrow the oppression would move to radicalized extremists who plan a protest for having more privacy.
pjc50 9y ago
"preparing themselves with terrorist training manuals" is of course already an offence.
seanlinmt 9y ago
I find it a little strange that people don't look into the reasons why terrorism exist. Wouldn't it be more efficient in trying to stamp out the root causes of terrorism? People don't just wake up one morning and go, "Ah. Such a beautiful morning. I think I'll start terrorising people today." Do they?
- wackro 9y ago
  In a society where violent acts fuelled by extremism are actually being carried out, you have to have the top down approach as well. However, I don't agree with massive loss of liberty like this one being proposed (as well as the snoopers charter, etc), and am wary of the potential for the laws to be misused by malevolent governments. New laws have to be proportional and have minimal scope for misuse, IMO.
- kuuff 9y ago
  > Wouldn't it be more efficient in trying to stamp out the root causes of terrorism? Is it means, to forbid mass media to speak about terrorism? The root cause of terrorism is his direct goals, the fear is the cause. Without information about terrorism the would be no fear, so terrorism would become pointless.
- mmjaa 9y ago
  Its far harder for western societies to contend with the fact that they are creating the terrorist threat by their own actions, than it is to just "blame religion" for the problem. But the truth of the matter is, we are creating the conditions for terrorists, every single day - by delivering our own form of terror: the (Imperial) Coalition forces currently demolishing Syria/Iraq/Afghanistan/Yemen are, indeed, terrorising entire populations in the rush to be the most efficient war-fighting machines on the planet. If you want to stop terrorism, its quite simple: stop letting your governments get away with murder. The way they do it, is couch everything in secrecy, while we the citizens decide that ignorance of the war our societies are waging is worth the luxury and decadence those wars provide. POP QUIZ: do you know how many people the state killed, in your name, today? Yesterday? Last week? Until you start paying attention to this statistic, citizen, you cannot cry when the terror comes home to roost.
- 9y ago
mosselman 9y ago
"The real oppression is terrorist attacks that leave people in fear of their safety." What does this have to do with terrorism? It might be a stated excuse for implementing laws like this, but the intent does not equal actual result. Also, I have not been killed by a terrorist, but if a law like this is passed where I live I will have been limited in my freedoms by my government. I am not scared of terrorists as of yet, so the net result is that I am not oppressed by terrorists, but I am oppressed by the government. News agencies and governments spread the fear of 'terrorist' attacks. Most of the time there are loners who carry out their 'attacks'. Calling them 'terrorists' makes them more scary, while in fact they are most often troubled individuals who choose to label their insanity with 'ISIS' so that the fear they spread is bigger. News agencies, eager to make money selling advertisement, use these mentally ill people by calling them 'terrorists' and sensationalising the events in order to get more viewers. "Not oppression: arresting some radicalised extremist for preparing themselves with terrorist training manuals and suchlike." This has nothing to do with what is happening. The article talks about making it illegal to read extremist websites. Intent and effect do not go hand in hand. On top of this stated intent and true intent do not go hand in hand either. Governments cannot be trusted with the authority to decide who gets access to which information, very recent example: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/no-justification-spanish-internet-censorship-during-catalonian-referendum https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/no-justification-spani...
- raverbashing 9y ago
  Your way of thinking scares me much more than the UK gov > Most of the time there are loners who carry out their 'attacks'. No. Some guy with a knife yeah, but for most of the other cases no I'm not scared about attacks, but I'm deeply scared how we came to tolerate radical "religions"
  - kthejoker2 9y ago
    Radical defined by whom? Religion defined by whom? First they came for the radicals ...
    - 9y ago
zulrah 9y ago
What happens when all extremist websites move to TOR at least now governments can monitor them. But with these extreme laws they are just going to start to use more secure communication channels

Joe-Z 9y ago

If oppression stems from people fostering fear in others, then the news outlets are the real oppressors. Let's face it: Terrorism is really a minor threat to almost all people's safety, yet it's constantly evoked to further restrict people's liberties.

pjc50 9y ago
It's a real challenge for the government to write laws against "hate preachers" without including Rod Liddle or Katie "final solution" Hopkins.
- mosselman 9y ago
  Instead of writing laws to 'protect' people from 'hate preachers' it would be a lot more effective if we use information and education to teach people, from a young age, to be critical and confident thinkers. One time in the streets of New York there was some racist shouting things at people of a certain ethnicity, picking them out from the crowd and calling them 'baby rapers'. Several people of different races shouted at him to "shut the fuck up". Those people obviously weren't swayed into thinking that all people of that specific race were indeed 'baby rapers'. I would rather live in a society where people are allowed to say that the holocaust didn't happen and have them be judged as the idiots they are, than a society where saying things that are deemed as 'extreme' by the government is illegal.
edanm 9y ago
Is there a chance that the reason terrorism is so minor a threat is because of the restrictions in liberty? I'm not saying I like it, but just saying "well terrorism isn't a threat" makes as much sense as saying "no one's every robbed our bank, so we can stop locking the door and having a guard posted outside" without giving further context.

badsectoracula 9y ago

That is what happens now. Tomorrow the oppression would move to radicalized extremists who plan a protest for having more privacy.

pjc50 9y ago

"preparing themselves with terrorist training manuals" is of course already an offence.

seanlinmt 9y ago

I find it a little strange that people don't look into the reasons why terrorism exist. Wouldn't it be more efficient in trying to stamp out the root causes of terrorism? People don't just wake up one morning and go, "Ah. Such a beautiful morning. I think I'll start terrorising people today." Do they?

wackro 9y ago
In a society where violent acts fuelled by extremism are actually being carried out, you have to have the top down approach as well. However, I don't agree with massive loss of liberty like this one being proposed (as well as the snoopers charter, etc), and am wary of the potential for the laws to be misused by malevolent governments. New laws have to be proportional and have minimal scope for misuse, IMO.
kuuff 9y ago
> Wouldn't it be more efficient in trying to stamp out the root causes of terrorism? Is it means, to forbid mass media to speak about terrorism? The root cause of terrorism is his direct goals, the fear is the cause. Without information about terrorism the would be no fear, so terrorism would become pointless.
mmjaa 9y ago
Its far harder for western societies to contend with the fact that they are creating the terrorist threat by their own actions, than it is to just "blame religion" for the problem. But the truth of the matter is, we are creating the conditions for terrorists, every single day - by delivering our own form of terror: the (Imperial) Coalition forces currently demolishing Syria/Iraq/Afghanistan/Yemen are, indeed, terrorising entire populations in the rush to be the most efficient war-fighting machines on the planet. If you want to stop terrorism, its quite simple: stop letting your governments get away with murder. The way they do it, is couch everything in secrecy, while we the citizens decide that ignorance of the war our societies are waging is worth the luxury and decadence those wars provide. POP QUIZ: do you know how many people the state killed, in your name, today? Yesterday? Last week? Until you start paying attention to this statistic, citizen, you cannot cry when the terror comes home to roost.
9y ago

mosselman 9y ago

"The real oppression is terrorist attacks that leave people in fear of their safety." What does this have to do with terrorism? It might be a stated excuse for implementing laws like this, but the intent does not equal actual result. Also, I have not been killed by a terrorist, but if a law like this is passed where I live I will have been limited in my freedoms by my government. I am not scared of terrorists as of yet, so the net result is that I am not oppressed by terrorists, but I am oppressed by the government. News agencies and governments spread the fear of 'terrorist' attacks. Most of the time there are loners who carry out their 'attacks'. Calling them 'terrorists' makes them more scary, while in fact they are most often troubled individuals who choose to label their insanity with 'ISIS' so that the fear they spread is bigger. News agencies, eager to make money selling advertisement, use these mentally ill people by calling them 'terrorists' and sensationalising the events in order to get more viewers. "Not oppression: arresting some radicalised extremist for preparing themselves with terrorist training manuals and suchlike." This has nothing to do with what is happening. The article talks about making it illegal to read extremist websites. Intent and effect do not go hand in hand. On top of this stated intent and true intent do not go hand in hand either. Governments cannot be trusted with the authority to decide who gets access to which information, very recent example: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/no-justification-spanish-internet-censorship-during-catalonian-referendum https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/no-justification-spani...

raverbashing 9y ago
Your way of thinking scares me much more than the UK gov > Most of the time there are loners who carry out their 'attacks'. No. Some guy with a knife yeah, but for most of the other cases no I'm not scared about attacks, but I'm deeply scared how we came to tolerate radical "religions"
- kthejoker2 9y ago
  Radical defined by whom? Religion defined by whom? First they came for the radicals ...
  - 9y ago

zulrah 9y ago

What happens when all extremist websites move to TOR at least now governments can monitor them. But with these extreme laws they are just going to start to use more secure communication channels