4 ms·

I hope this will efficiently solve the problem the same way problem of hard drugs has been solved for decades!

by akerro 9y ago

nnfy 9y ago
Can't wait to buy my kids trendy IARE shirts! Propaganda for the whole family!
Angostura 9y ago
I've been involved peripherally in working with anti-radicalisation programmes in UK schools. I imagine that the issue that authorities are bumping up against are the situations, where you know someone has been radicalised, but there is nothing effectively you can do because no law has been broken until there's evidence that they start assembling the components for the bomb or whatever. This is a hard problem and leads to all those 'the bomber was described as being on the intelligence services radar' lines in news stories. The benevolent reading of these kinds of moves is that it at least gives the authorities to intervene, though I recognise the risks to liberty.
- vt100 9y ago
  Then they should create a program where specific individuals can placed on a deradicalization program and be banned from extremist material. And then make it a crime to view the material while you are on that program.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    In a democratic society, you generally can't put adults in "programs" without their consent, unless they already committed a crime.
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
      > you generally can't put adults in "programs" without their consent, unless they already committed a crime. Sure you can - there's plenty of precedent for e.g. sectioning people into mental hospitals for their own safety or removing people's driving licenses when they might be a danger (without committing a crime - bad eyesight, bad motor control, drug regimen, etc.)
      - icebraining 9y ago
        A driving license is a privilege that comes with rules, taking it away is not the same as imposing unilateral restrictions. Sending people to mental hospitals is a fair example, but that's why I wrote "generally", acknowledging the existence of exceptions. In that case, it's accepted that consent is an oxymoron, which doesn't really apply here.
- pjc50 9y ago
  PREVENT is pretty dire, though. I agree it's a hard problem, but getting it wrong is going to lead to the Northern Ireland situation: overreaction by authorities creating political prisoners who will be martyrs to their cause. Bobby Sands is still a hero to many. > there is nothing effectively you can do because no law has been broken until there's evidence that they start assembling the components for the bomb or whatever Sure, but that is basically where we as a society have agreed the line is drawn for decades. Otherwise you start prosecuting people for "sedition". And it'll inevitably get used against peaceful leftwing groups and not against radical xenophobes, etc.
- tudorw 9y ago
  Thanks for broadening the discussion, authorities are a construct of our society that have come about usually in response to a need, they are mostly funded using our taxes and the output of the state's productivity, directed by our politicians, administered by our civil service and executed by employees of the state, they are not separate to society, they are within society, we made them and we influence the authorities behaviour by our actions. Trust is the glue that holds this together and transparency is the mechanism by which trust can be earnt. I'd like to see some strong progress in tools to visualise and inspect these systems, a way for me to connect the dots, the better these systems are, the more support they can be in demonstrating where transparency is lacking, open big data is helping, and it's exciting to imagine that a community led project could create a more complete picture of the systems we live in than we've ever had, if we can do that then perhaps there would be a better understanding of the constraints under which the authorities operate and the actions they take would have context.
wallace_f 9y ago
2017: when mean words can land you in jail, wrongthink is about to be a crime, free speech and the ACLU is white supremacy(1), and possibly the first time in history when a man breaking a woman's skull with his fist is OK(2). 1-https://reason.com/blog/2017/10/04/black-lives-matter-students-shut-down-th https://reason.com/blog/2017/10/04/black-lives-matter-studen... 2-https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yAAlFya89aw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yAAlFya89aw
- flotillo 9y ago
  The article is about a proposed change of law in the UK. Your commentary about the US seems rather off-topic.
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    Well, through Five Eyes and other partnerships, this would be enforced with the US's cooperation and support. That said, politics in the West, and even globally, have become increasingly interconnected. These trends and topics I mentioned are not isolated to the US at all. You have a point though, so I edited my comment.
- yread 9y ago
  2) of course it's ok, it's a sport? Injuries happen in sports. Particularly violent ones. Myke Tyson would probably break my skull as well if I was ever so dumb to get in the ring with him. There aren't only two genders just look at Caster Semenaya https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/29/what-is-an-intersex-athlete-explaining-the-case-of-caster-semenya https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/29/what-is-an-int... or look at this mess (and that's only part of it): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Humans
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    Have there been any other skull fractures in boxing, mma history?

I hope this will efficiently solve the problem the same way problem of hard drugs has been solved for decades!

by akerro 9y ago

I hope this will efficiently solve the problem the same way problem of hard drugs has been solved for decades!

nnfy 9y ago

Can't wait to buy my kids trendy IARE shirts! Propaganda for the whole family!

Angostura 9y ago

I've been involved peripherally in working with anti-radicalisation programmes in UK schools. I imagine that the issue that authorities are bumping up against are the situations, where you know someone has been radicalised, but there is nothing effectively you can do because no law has been broken until there's evidence that they start assembling the components for the bomb or whatever. This is a hard problem and leads to all those 'the bomber was described as being on the intelligence services radar' lines in news stories. The benevolent reading of these kinds of moves is that it at least gives the authorities to intervene, though I recognise the risks to liberty.

vt100 9y ago
Then they should create a program where specific individuals can placed on a deradicalization program and be banned from extremist material. And then make it a crime to view the material while you are on that program.
- icebraining 9y ago
  In a democratic society, you generally can't put adults in "programs" without their consent, unless they already committed a crime.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    > you generally can't put adults in "programs" without their consent, unless they already committed a crime. Sure you can - there's plenty of precedent for e.g. sectioning people into mental hospitals for their own safety or removing people's driving licenses when they might be a danger (without committing a crime - bad eyesight, bad motor control, drug regimen, etc.)
    - icebraining 9y ago
      A driving license is a privilege that comes with rules, taking it away is not the same as imposing unilateral restrictions. Sending people to mental hospitals is a fair example, but that's why I wrote "generally", acknowledging the existence of exceptions. In that case, it's accepted that consent is an oxymoron, which doesn't really apply here.
pjc50 9y ago
PREVENT is pretty dire, though. I agree it's a hard problem, but getting it wrong is going to lead to the Northern Ireland situation: overreaction by authorities creating political prisoners who will be martyrs to their cause. Bobby Sands is still a hero to many. > there is nothing effectively you can do because no law has been broken until there's evidence that they start assembling the components for the bomb or whatever Sure, but that is basically where we as a society have agreed the line is drawn for decades. Otherwise you start prosecuting people for "sedition". And it'll inevitably get used against peaceful leftwing groups and not against radical xenophobes, etc.
tudorw 9y ago
Thanks for broadening the discussion, authorities are a construct of our society that have come about usually in response to a need, they are mostly funded using our taxes and the output of the state's productivity, directed by our politicians, administered by our civil service and executed by employees of the state, they are not separate to society, they are within society, we made them and we influence the authorities behaviour by our actions. Trust is the glue that holds this together and transparency is the mechanism by which trust can be earnt. I'd like to see some strong progress in tools to visualise and inspect these systems, a way for me to connect the dots, the better these systems are, the more support they can be in demonstrating where transparency is lacking, open big data is helping, and it's exciting to imagine that a community led project could create a more complete picture of the systems we live in than we've ever had, if we can do that then perhaps there would be a better understanding of the constraints under which the authorities operate and the actions they take would have context.

wallace_f 9y ago

2017: when mean words can land you in jail, wrongthink is about to be a crime, free speech and the ACLU is white supremacy(1), and possibly the first time in history when a man breaking a woman's skull with his fist is OK(2). 1-https://reason.com/blog/2017/10/04/black-lives-matter-students-shut-down-th https://reason.com/blog/2017/10/04/black-lives-matter-studen... 2-https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yAAlFya89aw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yAAlFya89aw

flotillo 9y ago
The article is about a proposed change of law in the UK. Your commentary about the US seems rather off-topic.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  Well, through Five Eyes and other partnerships, this would be enforced with the US's cooperation and support. That said, politics in the West, and even globally, have become increasingly interconnected. These trends and topics I mentioned are not isolated to the US at all. You have a point though, so I edited my comment.
yread 9y ago
2) of course it's ok, it's a sport? Injuries happen in sports. Particularly violent ones. Myke Tyson would probably break my skull as well if I was ever so dumb to get in the ring with him. There aren't only two genders just look at Caster Semenaya https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/29/what-is-an-intersex-athlete-explaining-the-case-of-caster-semenya https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/29/what-is-an-int... or look at this mess (and that's only part of it): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Humans
- wallace_f 9y ago
  Have there been any other skull fractures in boxing, mma history?