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My favorite piece of cognitive dissonance was that on the guns subreddit, the first reaction of people was thoughts and prayers, then they immediately started d

My favorite piece of cognitive dissonance was that on the guns subreddit, the first reaction of people was thoughts and prayers, then they immediately started discussing which of the 10 methods he might have used to convert his guns to full auto. I think there wasn't a single person on there who didn't know at least of one. And here I'm thinking we banned full auto guns. They serve no purpose whatsoever for sports use, hunting or self defense.

post_break 9y ago
"And here I'm thinking we banned full auto guns." They were never banned, just grandfathered. You have been able to buy a full auto gun for a long long time. No one that commits these acts buys a full auto gun legally through NFA. "They serve no purpose whatsoever for sports use, hunting or self defense." They are collector items that increase in price every year. You can take them to a gun range and waste ammo. You can use them for self defense like any other gun, Harry Beckwith did just that. The reason the guns subreddit all flock to see how this person was shooting at such a rapid fire is to see if this was a machine gun (historic event similar to the LA bank robbers) or if he used some other method which would cause such a thing to become banned.
- revelation 9y ago
  Maybe I can't read between the lines in a gun subreddit but they weren't talking about grandfathered collectors items but buttstocks and rotary crank "hacks". Didn't saw anyone mention machine guns or LA bank robbers either.
  - post_break 9y ago
    That's because you need to be specific with your language. Your original comment on here mentions how you thought full auto guns were banned, so I tried to clarify that. When I first heard the shooting the first thought I had was which device did he use to fire so rapidly and what the repercussions might be. This type of thinking always happens because a hobby (or if you feel strongly, a right) you care about will instantly be attacked with false information. Gun enthusiasts try to pick it apart and come up with what it could have been, and the repercussions might be. There were plenty of people who thought he modified the guns to be full auto, I was one. Sliding stocks usually work like crap, and good luck practicing because most gun ranges ban them because you can't aim with them. My point is just because people who enjoy guns dissect a tragedy to the 100th degree the second it happens, doesn't mean they don't care about anyone but themselves, they just know people who don't know the difference between an AR15 and an M4 or that suppressors are still loud enough to get hearing damage when used will attack your hobby. When a plane goes down you want to know why and I'm sure pilots do the same exact thing. No you can cry apples and oranges, but before you do please try to put yourself into the mind of the "other" side.
- herewulf 9y ago
  I was curious about your mention of Harry Beckwith. A little searching turned up this interesting story: http://www.afn.org/~guns/ayoob.html http://www.afn.org/~guns/ayoob.html
megaman22 9y ago
If there is a data breach that financially ruins hundreds or thousands of people, how long does it take us here to go from expressing thoughts and prayers to analyzing and theorizing how the crackers broke in and got the data out?
- revelation 9y ago
  Nope, that doesn't work. We don't believe breaching companies and financially ruining hundreds of thousands is legal and even have hands on experience in the matter, we believe in responsible disclosure. They were talking about special buttstocks and bizarre rotary crank contraptions with the sole purpose of making a gun full auto out of hands on experience and with full conviction that these things should be legal. If I find a security issue I report it just as I would expect a gun hobbyist to campaign for full auto hacks to be illegal, because that is the domain of criminals and the irresponsible.
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    Actually you could argue by analogy and say that: Weapons modifications should be legal just like modifying programs. And of course: hacking someone elses server isn't allowed even if you are allowed to do the same thing at your own machine. Now keep in mind I don’t like those devices. I hear most shooting ranges ban them and I think that is reasonable. I'm just trying to take a principled stand here and say that mechanical tinkering by default should be protected just like software tinkering.
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    Actually you could argue by analogy and say that: Weapons modifications should be legal just like modifying programs. And of course: hacking someone elses server isn't allowed even if you are allowed to do the same thing at your own machine. Now keep in mind I don’t like those devices. I hear many (most?) shooting ranges ban them and I think that is reasonable. I'm just trying to take a principled stand here and say that mechanical tinkering by default should be protected just like software tinkering.

post_break 9y ago

"And here I'm thinking we banned full auto guns." They were never banned, just grandfathered. You have been able to buy a full auto gun for a long long time. No one that commits these acts buys a full auto gun legally through NFA. "They serve no purpose whatsoever for sports use, hunting or self defense." They are collector items that increase in price every year. You can take them to a gun range and waste ammo. You can use them for self defense like any other gun, Harry Beckwith did just that. The reason the guns subreddit all flock to see how this person was shooting at such a rapid fire is to see if this was a machine gun (historic event similar to the LA bank robbers) or if he used some other method which would cause such a thing to become banned.

revelation 9y ago
Maybe I can't read between the lines in a gun subreddit but they weren't talking about grandfathered collectors items but buttstocks and rotary crank "hacks". Didn't saw anyone mention machine guns or LA bank robbers either.
- post_break 9y ago
  That's because you need to be specific with your language. Your original comment on here mentions how you thought full auto guns were banned, so I tried to clarify that. When I first heard the shooting the first thought I had was which device did he use to fire so rapidly and what the repercussions might be. This type of thinking always happens because a hobby (or if you feel strongly, a right) you care about will instantly be attacked with false information. Gun enthusiasts try to pick it apart and come up with what it could have been, and the repercussions might be. There were plenty of people who thought he modified the guns to be full auto, I was one. Sliding stocks usually work like crap, and good luck practicing because most gun ranges ban them because you can't aim with them. My point is just because people who enjoy guns dissect a tragedy to the 100th degree the second it happens, doesn't mean they don't care about anyone but themselves, they just know people who don't know the difference between an AR15 and an M4 or that suppressors are still loud enough to get hearing damage when used will attack your hobby. When a plane goes down you want to know why and I'm sure pilots do the same exact thing. No you can cry apples and oranges, but before you do please try to put yourself into the mind of the "other" side.
herewulf 9y ago
I was curious about your mention of Harry Beckwith. A little searching turned up this interesting story: http://www.afn.org/~guns/ayoob.html http://www.afn.org/~guns/ayoob.html

megaman22 9y ago

If there is a data breach that financially ruins hundreds or thousands of people, how long does it take us here to go from expressing thoughts and prayers to analyzing and theorizing how the crackers broke in and got the data out?

revelation 9y ago
Nope, that doesn't work. We don't believe breaching companies and financially ruining hundreds of thousands is legal and even have hands on experience in the matter, we believe in responsible disclosure. They were talking about special buttstocks and bizarre rotary crank contraptions with the sole purpose of making a gun full auto out of hands on experience and with full conviction that these things should be legal. If I find a security issue I report it just as I would expect a gun hobbyist to campaign for full auto hacks to be illegal, because that is the domain of criminals and the irresponsible.
- reitanqild 9y ago
  Actually you could argue by analogy and say that: Weapons modifications should be legal just like modifying programs. And of course: hacking someone elses server isn't allowed even if you are allowed to do the same thing at your own machine. Now keep in mind I don’t like those devices. I hear most shooting ranges ban them and I think that is reasonable. I'm just trying to take a principled stand here and say that mechanical tinkering by default should be protected just like software tinkering.
- reitanqild 9y ago
  Actually you could argue by analogy and say that: Weapons modifications should be legal just like modifying programs. And of course: hacking someone elses server isn't allowed even if you are allowed to do the same thing at your own machine. Now keep in mind I don’t like those devices. I hear many (most?) shooting ranges ban them and I think that is reasonable. I'm just trying to take a principled stand here and say that mechanical tinkering by default should be protected just like software tinkering.