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I find it interesting that you say that each character represents a sound in western language, while not in Japanese or Chinese. In Japanese こ can only be pron

I find it interesting that you say that each character represents a sound in western language, while not in Japanese or Chinese. In Japanese こ can only be pronounced one way. In Chinese (I believe) 子 can only be pronounced one way. It also has an associated meaning which is handy for learning new words. In english, what sound does C make? ex) Chair Care cycle Why can I pronounce Ghoti as 'Fish'? Read <-- How do you pronounce this? Is it Red or Reed? I actually find the looseness of English spelling to be much more of a hardship than learning a number of different pronunciations.

zavulon 16y ago
I don't speak Chinese or Japanese, but people that do told me that there are more than five ways to pronounce "yi", they all mean different things, but they're all transliterated to English in the same way. However, that's not what I meant. I meant to say as far as ease of transcribing spoken word onto paper, alphabet system is fundamentally easier, because you only have to remember 25-45 (approximately) number of characters. While in hieroglyphics, the number is much much larger.
- w1ntermute 16y ago
  I don't speak Chinese or Japanese, but people that do told me that there are more than five ways to pronounce "yi", they all mean different things, but they're all transliterated to English in the same way. That's because Chinese is tonal. There are 5 different tones in Standard Mandarin. When transliterating Chinese to the English alphabet, there is no way to write the tone, so you introduce ambiguity that wasn't officially present.
derefr 16y ago
English is a bad example of a phonetic language. I prefer Latin: everything has one pronunciation (at least, when rendered in the Greek alphabet), and character-strings act as combining forms for words just as characters do in ideographic languages ("electro-" works in all the same situations that "電-" does.)
w1ntermute 16y ago
I find it funny that you bring this up. How many ways can 二 be pronounced in Japanese?
- harisenbon 16y ago
  That'll teach me to omit details for simplicity. ;) Kanji is an exception in Japanese because it was forcibly shoe-horned into the language. (Granted, Kanji came before kana, but as far as 'purely Japanese' scripts I think that kana takes precedence). Thus it really doesn't fit well with the Japanese pronunciations because sometimes it was brought in for meaning (火山 vs 火) without any care for how it was pronounced -- either forcing the pronunciation to conform to the original Japanese word, or creating a new word from the Chinese. Also the fact that Kanji entered japan at different points in history means that there were different interpretations of how the kanji should be used. (I see something similar with katakana -- you can generally tell the timeframe in which the word entered the Japanese language depending on whether the word is based on the English spelling, or the English pronunciation. Or is even from another language such a Portuguese or German) :: End Sidebar :: Not that I think that Japanese is a great example of a "logical language." But one of the things I always liked about Japanese is the fact that (with a few exceptions) the kana can only be pronounced one way. Btw, as I'm sure you know the pronunciations for 二 is に. But when you combine it as part of a word can also be pronounced ふた、ふ、ふう　or じ
  - w1ntermute 16y ago
    Kanji is an exception in Japanese because it was forcibly shoe-horned into the language. Much like how the English alphabet ultimately originates from Egyptian hieroglyphs, and was forcibly shoe-horned into the language by the Romans as they spread Christianity across Europe. But one of the things I always liked about Japanese is the fact that (with a few exceptions) the kana can only be pronounced one way. Well, it does omit pitch accent. Reminds me of how my Japanese professor mentioned that she went almost a decade without realizing that in the こ-, そ-, あ-, ど- series, ど- involves a decrease in pitch, whereas the others involve an increase. Something that would be very useful to include in the orthography ;/ Btw, as I'm sure you know the pronunciations for 二 is に. But when you combine it as part of a word can also be pronounced ふた、ふ、ふう　or じ Which is somewhat analogous to how 'p' and 'h' have one pronunciation (that I can think of off the top of my head), but when they're combined, you get an 'f' sound.

zavulon 16y ago

I don't speak Chinese or Japanese, but people that do told me that there are more than five ways to pronounce "yi", they all mean different things, but they're all transliterated to English in the same way. However, that's not what I meant. I meant to say as far as ease of transcribing spoken word onto paper, alphabet system is fundamentally easier, because you only have to remember 25-45 (approximately) number of characters. While in hieroglyphics, the number is much much larger.

w1ntermute 16y ago
I don't speak Chinese or Japanese, but people that do told me that there are more than five ways to pronounce "yi", they all mean different things, but they're all transliterated to English in the same way. That's because Chinese is tonal. There are 5 different tones in Standard Mandarin. When transliterating Chinese to the English alphabet, there is no way to write the tone, so you introduce ambiguity that wasn't officially present.

derefr 16y ago

English is a bad example of a phonetic language. I prefer Latin: everything has one pronunciation (at least, when rendered in the Greek alphabet), and character-strings act as combining forms for words just as characters do in ideographic languages ("electro-" works in all the same situations that "電-" does.)

w1ntermute 16y ago

I find it funny that you bring this up. How many ways can 二 be pronounced in Japanese?

harisenbon 16y ago
That'll teach me to omit details for simplicity. ;) Kanji is an exception in Japanese because it was forcibly shoe-horned into the language. (Granted, Kanji came before kana, but as far as 'purely Japanese' scripts I think that kana takes precedence). Thus it really doesn't fit well with the Japanese pronunciations because sometimes it was brought in for meaning (火山 vs 火) without any care for how it was pronounced -- either forcing the pronunciation to conform to the original Japanese word, or creating a new word from the Chinese. Also the fact that Kanji entered japan at different points in history means that there were different interpretations of how the kanji should be used. (I see something similar with katakana -- you can generally tell the timeframe in which the word entered the Japanese language depending on whether the word is based on the English spelling, or the English pronunciation. Or is even from another language such a Portuguese or German) :: End Sidebar :: Not that I think that Japanese is a great example of a "logical language." But one of the things I always liked about Japanese is the fact that (with a few exceptions) the kana can only be pronounced one way. Btw, as I'm sure you know the pronunciations for 二 is に. But when you combine it as part of a word can also be pronounced ふた、ふ、ふう　or じ
- w1ntermute 16y ago
  Kanji is an exception in Japanese because it was forcibly shoe-horned into the language. Much like how the English alphabet ultimately originates from Egyptian hieroglyphs, and was forcibly shoe-horned into the language by the Romans as they spread Christianity across Europe. But one of the things I always liked about Japanese is the fact that (with a few exceptions) the kana can only be pronounced one way. Well, it does omit pitch accent. Reminds me of how my Japanese professor mentioned that she went almost a decade without realizing that in the こ-, そ-, あ-, ど- series, ど- involves a decrease in pitch, whereas the others involve an increase. Something that would be very useful to include in the orthography ;/ Btw, as I'm sure you know the pronunciations for 二 is に. But when you combine it as part of a word can also be pronounced ふた、ふ、ふう　or じ Which is somewhat analogous to how 'p' and 'h' have one pronunciation (that I can think of off the top of my head), but when they're combined, you get an 'f' sound.