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Honestly though, is it even worth learning? I've tried learning VIM a few times and always gave up, and feel like my editors shortcuts cover most cases anyway.

by fstop 9y ago

Honestly though, is it even worth learning? I've tried learning VIM a few times and always gave up, and feel like my editors shortcuts cover most cases anyway. There's also not that many times where I feel like coding speed is required. Honestly curious how much more productive you guys feel after learning VIM.

knicholes 9y ago
I use vim when I ssh into a remote server and don't have a UI and editor available.
- fstop 9y ago
  Good points, thanks guys. I only SSH occasionally and it is a pain to navigate through nano. I actually tried a bit of vimtutor this morning and found it pretty enjoyable.
gervase 9y ago
I would say it's definitely worth learning, even if you don't use it for coding, simply for the reason that it's ubiquitous. I use it constantly when configuring Linux machines, which is only an ancillary part of my job, just for the regex search to find the line I want to tweak. Since servers don't generally offer a GUI, it's the simplest way to replicate that feature.
thomasahle 9y ago
For me the productivity boost is mostly a matter of having a suite of very powerful shortcuts/commands that I can use everywhere. I use them in all IDE's (IntelliJ, Visual Studio, Eclipse all have great vim plugins); I use them in any terminal I get access to, even when I can't install software; and I use them in less, Chrome, man and other other tools that copy vim's shortcuts either natively or through plugins. In actual day to day use, it is more a matter of saving my fingers from stressful yoga tricks.
- pweissbrod 9y ago
  +1 Also consider vim in your web browser (vimperator or vimfx or qutebrowser or vimium) Vim in your file explorer (vifm) Vim in your terminal (tmux in vim-mode) Vim in your mayonnaise for lunch (https://lisalynnfit.vimtoday.com/images/thumbs/0000878_1200.jpeg https://lisalynnfit.vimtoday.com/images/thumbs/0000878_1200....) Vim as a floor wax/desert topping (http://www.mysavings.com/img/link/large/74808.jpg http://www.mysavings.com/img/link/large/74808.jpg) and so forth.
  - vetar 9y ago
    You mentioned tmux... What is the best counterpart windows solution by you? vim+tmux is awesome.
- nitemice 9y ago
  I really like the sound of this, and it's one of the reasons I've persisted with learning vim. But I have to admit, I have remapped a fair amount of stuff, so I'm not sure if it would apply to me. Do those vim-mode plugins allow you to remap keys or load your vimrc?
brandonmenc 9y ago
No. If you could improve your typing efficiency by an order of magnitude (not likely), how much time would you save? Minutes per day? Certainly not a whole hour. Use a modern IDE with sane out-of-the-box configuration (ex: JetBrains.) Realize that you spend more time thinking than typing. Eliminate redundant typing with templates. I used vi for years, then emacs for nearly two decades. I will never go back.
- saltycraig 9y ago
  Same here, used both vim and emacs for many years, reading all the books and customizing them both endlessly. Getting older now and tired of wasting time trying to get vim and/or emacs to work under a certain configuration/environment. Any good IDE has both vim/emacs key configs, which do me just fine, although they are never quite exactly the same, I can do 75+% of the vim commands that in JetBrains/whatever that I'd do in vim.
edanm 9y ago
Personally, I would say it's probably not worth learning for most people. And I say this as a huge fan and many-year user of vim. I'll tell you why I like vim, and you can see if it resonates with you, and if not that's totally valid IMO. The reason I use and like vim isn't because it improves my productivity. I mean, there's a chance it does, but I kinda doubt it makes that big a difference. The reason I use vim is because I enjoy using it way more than any other editor. That's because with vim, the amount of time between me deciding on a specific change to make, to it happening, is almost instantaneous. In other editors, I have to spend time moving the cursor around, selecting stuff, etc. In vim, there's usually a command to get what I want done immediately. Not to mention that, with additional plugins, you can get some insane functionality that doesn't exist elsewhere (and you can easily customize vim to add commands that are relevant for you). I don't think this impacts productivity, but it just makes vim more fun. And (in all seriousness), it's ruined me for other IDEs and editors. Even though there's a chance I'd be more productive in e.g. PyCharm, I can't make the switch because I'd miss too many things from vim. Btw, it took me a long time to get semi-descent in vim, as I assume it takes most people. I did it not just because vim was a better editor and I was hooked, but because I enjoy playing with and customizing editors. So the amount of time I wasted (and still waste) on vim was enjoyable, so it was worth it to me. I wouldn't consider it productive time well spent though.
foo101 9y ago
I have been using Vim for 15 years now and I see no other editor (not even Emacs) that comes anywhere close to the ergonomics of Vim. I can edit code the fastest in Vim. If you think Vim is not helping you being more productive, I suggest reading the excellent StackOverflow answer that explains how learning Vim is like learning a language (not just learning keyboard shortcuts): https://stackoverflow.com/a/1220118/1175080 https://stackoverflow.com/a/1220118/1175080 The only things that I find lacking in Vim is good support for various software development environments, for example, Java development. Another thing that used to bother me is the awkward placement of the Escape key but I overcome that easily by remapping my Caps Lock to Escape (see https://github.com/susam/uncap#uncap https://github.com/susam/uncap#uncap for examples).
protomikron 9y ago
Although learning Vim gives you a productive editing environment, another advantage can be health related. I find it more comfortable to have my fingers on the home row, than stretching them to pull off CTRL key-sequences.

by fstop 9y ago

knicholes 9y ago

I use vim when I ssh into a remote server and don't have a UI and editor available.

fstop 9y ago
Good points, thanks guys. I only SSH occasionally and it is a pain to navigate through nano. I actually tried a bit of vimtutor this morning and found it pretty enjoyable.

gervase 9y ago

I would say it's definitely worth learning, even if you don't use it for coding, simply for the reason that it's ubiquitous. I use it constantly when configuring Linux machines, which is only an ancillary part of my job, just for the regex search to find the line I want to tweak. Since servers don't generally offer a GUI, it's the simplest way to replicate that feature.

thomasahle 9y ago

For me the productivity boost is mostly a matter of having a suite of very powerful shortcuts/commands that I can use everywhere. I use them in all IDE's (IntelliJ, Visual Studio, Eclipse all have great vim plugins); I use them in any terminal I get access to, even when I can't install software; and I use them in less, Chrome, man and other other tools that copy vim's shortcuts either natively or through plugins. In actual day to day use, it is more a matter of saving my fingers from stressful yoga tricks.

pweissbrod 9y ago
+1 Also consider vim in your web browser (vimperator or vimfx or qutebrowser or vimium) Vim in your file explorer (vifm) Vim in your terminal (tmux in vim-mode) Vim in your mayonnaise for lunch (https://lisalynnfit.vimtoday.com/images/thumbs/0000878_1200.jpeg https://lisalynnfit.vimtoday.com/images/thumbs/0000878_1200....) Vim as a floor wax/desert topping (http://www.mysavings.com/img/link/large/74808.jpg http://www.mysavings.com/img/link/large/74808.jpg) and so forth.
- vetar 9y ago
  You mentioned tmux... What is the best counterpart windows solution by you? vim+tmux is awesome.
nitemice 9y ago
I really like the sound of this, and it's one of the reasons I've persisted with learning vim. But I have to admit, I have remapped a fair amount of stuff, so I'm not sure if it would apply to me. Do those vim-mode plugins allow you to remap keys or load your vimrc?

brandonmenc 9y ago

No. If you could improve your typing efficiency by an order of magnitude (not likely), how much time would you save? Minutes per day? Certainly not a whole hour. Use a modern IDE with sane out-of-the-box configuration (ex: JetBrains.) Realize that you spend more time thinking than typing. Eliminate redundant typing with templates. I used vi for years, then emacs for nearly two decades. I will never go back.

saltycraig 9y ago
Same here, used both vim and emacs for many years, reading all the books and customizing them both endlessly. Getting older now and tired of wasting time trying to get vim and/or emacs to work under a certain configuration/environment. Any good IDE has both vim/emacs key configs, which do me just fine, although they are never quite exactly the same, I can do 75+% of the vim commands that in JetBrains/whatever that I'd do in vim.

edanm 9y ago

Personally, I would say it's probably not worth learning for most people. And I say this as a huge fan and many-year user of vim. I'll tell you why I like vim, and you can see if it resonates with you, and if not that's totally valid IMO. The reason I use and like vim isn't because it improves my productivity. I mean, there's a chance it does, but I kinda doubt it makes that big a difference. The reason I use vim is because I enjoy using it way more than any other editor. That's because with vim, the amount of time between me deciding on a specific change to make, to it happening, is almost instantaneous. In other editors, I have to spend time moving the cursor around, selecting stuff, etc. In vim, there's usually a command to get what I want done immediately. Not to mention that, with additional plugins, you can get some insane functionality that doesn't exist elsewhere (and you can easily customize vim to add commands that are relevant for you). I don't think this impacts productivity, but it just makes vim more fun. And (in all seriousness), it's ruined me for other IDEs and editors. Even though there's a chance I'd be more productive in e.g. PyCharm, I can't make the switch because I'd miss too many things from vim. Btw, it took me a long time to get semi-descent in vim, as I assume it takes most people. I did it not just because vim was a better editor and I was hooked, but because I enjoy playing with and customizing editors. So the amount of time I wasted (and still waste) on vim was enjoyable, so it was worth it to me. I wouldn't consider it productive time well spent though.

foo101 9y ago

I have been using Vim for 15 years now and I see no other editor (not even Emacs) that comes anywhere close to the ergonomics of Vim. I can edit code the fastest in Vim. If you think Vim is not helping you being more productive, I suggest reading the excellent StackOverflow answer that explains how learning Vim is like learning a language (not just learning keyboard shortcuts): https://stackoverflow.com/a/1220118/1175080 https://stackoverflow.com/a/1220118/1175080 The only things that I find lacking in Vim is good support for various software development environments, for example, Java development. Another thing that used to bother me is the awkward placement of the Escape key but I overcome that easily by remapping my Caps Lock to Escape (see https://github.com/susam/uncap#uncap https://github.com/susam/uncap#uncap for examples).

protomikron 9y ago

Although learning Vim gives you a productive editing environment, another advantage can be health related. I find it more comfortable to have my fingers on the home row, than stretching them to pull off CTRL key-sequences.