5 ms·

Canary in the coal mine. Depression may be a social illness because people with heighten empathy feel something is wrong with the system around them resulting

by bhewes 9y ago

Canary in the coal mine. Depression may be a social illness because people with heighten empathy feel something is wrong with the system around them resulting in depression. That seems a stronger argument then some macro economic argument about ill defined inequality.

jlos 9y ago
Depression has higher incidences in individualistic and affluent western societies. One probably analysis, agreeing with what you said, is that the "something wrong" is the lack of social cohesion that prosperity and modernity have brought. The broader direction of our culture for >100 years has lead to the breakdown of institutions that maintain social cohesion in favor of personal autonomy and expression (which those same social institutions, to varying degrees, inhibit). That's the trade off for placing personal autonomy and self-expression at the paramount of social priorities--the guard rails come off.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  Because the non-Western countries are poorer, with worse issues to deal with. How can you afford seeing a psychiatrist who gives you the diagnosis depression when you can barely pay for the roof above your head? See e.g. the karoshi (yes I'm aware that is Japanese) at Foxconn.
mfoy_ 9y ago
Canary. A cannery is a place that cans stuff. Pedanticism aside, you make a very good point. I feel like Western society has been progressively getting more and more individualistic, with movements like Libertarianism on the rise. People who just want us all to get along are being down-trodden by the people who just want to get ahead.
- bhewes 9y ago
  Maybe I was thinking of Steinbeck when I wrote that who knows. So good catch and thanks. I am pro individualism as it helps people define themselves. But as you pointed out when it is turned into a zero sum game of getting ahead in an already developed system it becomes a hollow view. At some point I has to change to we for progress to happen. Strangely it was my extremely competitive corporate executive father who told me stop using I switch to we. A simple change that allowed me to see problems collectively instead of individualistically.
phil21 9y ago
Someone already replied to you with some of the same point - but I think the problem is exceedingly obvious - we lack community in the US. I put a large part of the blame on suburban development. What did we expect when we took social animals and then sequestered them into little boxes far away from where humans congregate - requiring you to fit into another little box to drive to the next box for your planned and highly controlled social experience. Nevermind the 1.5hrs+ the average suburban commuter sits in a little box 5 days a week. I've been thinking of where to move to finally "settle down" in the US - and I'm coming up with a blank to be honest. I want to live somewhere I can be part of a community that shares my values and pulls together on a day to day basis - not just when some national news style emergency happens. I want daily interaction with my neighbors, forced or otherwise. I want the neighborhood kids to come running through my yard/sidewalk/whatever and to feed half a dozen of them lunch if they happen to be around when it's time, and to expect the same when my kid is off wandering and exploring. The phrase it takes a village to raise a child is absolutely more true than I ever realized. We destroyed nearly all our villages, and now wonder why we're so divided and depressed. We no longer function as a society that shares the same major goals. Talking to someone who lives in a semi-functional (I'm not sure functional exists in the US) community from a large city compared to the average suburbanite is eye opening in the disconnect from reality the latter has. I grew up around it, and simply didn't realize how damaging it is until I started to travel the world and see how actual communities function. I know some folks do well in suburban-style living, but I would say that the majority who say they love it are actively being mentally and socially damaged and simply don't know it. The views they express are now completely normalized.
- bhewes 9y ago
  Warning this is coming from someone highly involved in Oklahoma politics. Oklahoma towns and cities tends to be more community centered. This may be do to a lack of money in a community or physical isolation from the rest of the country. But it is still there. There are the same problems that other cities have, but we do provide good housing for most of our citizens. Tulsa, in particular through the work of the Mental Health Association of Oklahoma has ended chronic homeless within its borders. We are working on the same in Oklahoma City. We believe hard work matters and people can be leave poverty. The community providing the support systems for that to happen. Now, no one is going to give it to you. We just allow an affordable education path for betterment. And have a strong network of nonprofits and family foundations supporting programs of many kinds. That is just in the area I am fortunate to work in. Oklahoma is not perfect one just has to look at where we stand national on things like teen pregnancy, women incarnation, drug abuse etc. It is just there are some places where community still matters and Oklahoma is one of those places.

by bhewes 9y ago

jlos 9y ago

Depression has higher incidences in individualistic and affluent western societies. One probably analysis, agreeing with what you said, is that the "something wrong" is the lack of social cohesion that prosperity and modernity have brought. The broader direction of our culture for >100 years has lead to the breakdown of institutions that maintain social cohesion in favor of personal autonomy and expression (which those same social institutions, to varying degrees, inhibit). That's the trade off for placing personal autonomy and self-expression at the paramount of social priorities--the guard rails come off.

Fnoord 9y ago
Because the non-Western countries are poorer, with worse issues to deal with. How can you afford seeing a psychiatrist who gives you the diagnosis depression when you can barely pay for the roof above your head? See e.g. the karoshi (yes I'm aware that is Japanese) at Foxconn.

mfoy_ 9y ago

Canary. A cannery is a place that cans stuff. Pedanticism aside, you make a very good point. I feel like Western society has been progressively getting more and more individualistic, with movements like Libertarianism on the rise. People who just want us all to get along are being down-trodden by the people who just want to get ahead.

bhewes 9y ago
Maybe I was thinking of Steinbeck when I wrote that who knows. So good catch and thanks. I am pro individualism as it helps people define themselves. But as you pointed out when it is turned into a zero sum game of getting ahead in an already developed system it becomes a hollow view. At some point I has to change to we for progress to happen. Strangely it was my extremely competitive corporate executive father who told me stop using I switch to we. A simple change that allowed me to see problems collectively instead of individualistically.

phil21 9y ago

Someone already replied to you with some of the same point - but I think the problem is exceedingly obvious - we lack community in the US. I put a large part of the blame on suburban development. What did we expect when we took social animals and then sequestered them into little boxes far away from where humans congregate - requiring you to fit into another little box to drive to the next box for your planned and highly controlled social experience. Nevermind the 1.5hrs+ the average suburban commuter sits in a little box 5 days a week. I've been thinking of where to move to finally "settle down" in the US - and I'm coming up with a blank to be honest. I want to live somewhere I can be part of a community that shares my values and pulls together on a day to day basis - not just when some national news style emergency happens. I want daily interaction with my neighbors, forced or otherwise. I want the neighborhood kids to come running through my yard/sidewalk/whatever and to feed half a dozen of them lunch if they happen to be around when it's time, and to expect the same when my kid is off wandering and exploring. The phrase it takes a village to raise a child is absolutely more true than I ever realized. We destroyed nearly all our villages, and now wonder why we're so divided and depressed. We no longer function as a society that shares the same major goals. Talking to someone who lives in a semi-functional (I'm not sure functional exists in the US) community from a large city compared to the average suburbanite is eye opening in the disconnect from reality the latter has. I grew up around it, and simply didn't realize how damaging it is until I started to travel the world and see how actual communities function. I know some folks do well in suburban-style living, but I would say that the majority who say they love it are actively being mentally and socially damaged and simply don't know it. The views they express are now completely normalized.

bhewes 9y ago
Warning this is coming from someone highly involved in Oklahoma politics. Oklahoma towns and cities tends to be more community centered. This may be do to a lack of money in a community or physical isolation from the rest of the country. But it is still there. There are the same problems that other cities have, but we do provide good housing for most of our citizens. Tulsa, in particular through the work of the Mental Health Association of Oklahoma has ended chronic homeless within its borders. We are working on the same in Oklahoma City. We believe hard work matters and people can be leave poverty. The community providing the support systems for that to happen. Now, no one is going to give it to you. We just allow an affordable education path for betterment. And have a strong network of nonprofits and family foundations supporting programs of many kinds. That is just in the area I am fortunate to work in. Oklahoma is not perfect one just has to look at where we stand national on things like teen pregnancy, women incarnation, drug abuse etc. It is just there are some places where community still matters and Oklahoma is one of those places.