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This doesn’t worry me. In fact I like the idea of coal power plants being a backup and ready to go. The more solar we have the less backup we’ll need, but it’s

This doesn’t worry me. In fact I like the idea of coal power plants being a backup and ready to go. The more solar we have the less backup we’ll need, but it’s always nice to have a backup.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Coal generators don't work this way. It can take 12-36 hours to ramp from a cold start. Natural gas (combined cycle turbines) can throttle up in minutes, which is what pushed coal out of the generation mix (natural gas is a perfect compliment to renewables until battery storage is cost competitive, you have to be able to fill in generation intermittency gaps with little response latency). Here's a great story [1] from the Tampa Bay Times about what happened when TECO (the local utility) didn't want to power down a coal fired boiler to take the generator out of service to clear slag from the bottom of the boiler (TL;DR several people died a horrible death from the equivalent of flowing magma). Coal is almost dead, just a bit more of a way to go. [1] http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/investigations/tampa-electric/big-bend-hellfire-from-above/ http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/investigations/tampa-e...
- Brakenshire 9y ago
  Coal is dead in Britain, there will be zero generation in the next few years. It was the deregulated energy industry that killed it, starting in the 80's, out-competed on price and flexibility by gas.
  - ben_w 9y ago
    I don’t want to sound like I’m a fan of coal, but coal died in the UK before it became uneconomical: the coal miners went on strike for long enough that the government made it a strategic goal to never let striking workers be politically relevant again.
KirinDave 9y ago
A much better plan is to use an excess of solar energy to power processes that produce ethanol-based fuels and then keep a reserve of those (which by the by, is carbon sequestration at best and neutral at worst). Coal power plants are awkward and inefficient and require a lot of work just to move the fuel around. There's a reason the world worked hard to develop better fuel technologies as quickly as possible.

This doesn’t worry me. In fact I like the idea of coal power plants being a backup and ready to go. The more solar we have the less backup we’ll need, but it’s always nice to have a backup.

toomuchtodo 9y ago

Coal generators don't work this way. It can take 12-36 hours to ramp from a cold start. Natural gas (combined cycle turbines) can throttle up in minutes, which is what pushed coal out of the generation mix (natural gas is a perfect compliment to renewables until battery storage is cost competitive, you have to be able to fill in generation intermittency gaps with little response latency). Here's a great story [1] from the Tampa Bay Times about what happened when TECO (the local utility) didn't want to power down a coal fired boiler to take the generator out of service to clear slag from the bottom of the boiler (TL;DR several people died a horrible death from the equivalent of flowing magma). Coal is almost dead, just a bit more of a way to go. [1] http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/investigations/tampa-electric/big-bend-hellfire-from-above/ http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/investigations/tampa-e...

Brakenshire 9y ago
Coal is dead in Britain, there will be zero generation in the next few years. It was the deregulated energy industry that killed it, starting in the 80's, out-competed on price and flexibility by gas.
- ben_w 9y ago
  I don’t want to sound like I’m a fan of coal, but coal died in the UK before it became uneconomical: the coal miners went on strike for long enough that the government made it a strategic goal to never let striking workers be politically relevant again.

KirinDave 9y ago

A much better plan is to use an excess of solar energy to power processes that produce ethanol-based fuels and then keep a reserve of those (which by the by, is carbon sequestration at best and neutral at worst). Coal power plants are awkward and inefficient and require a lot of work just to move the fuel around. There's a reason the world worked hard to develop better fuel technologies as quickly as possible.