4 ms·

"But PCs are still around. I’m not happy about this." Would be nice to read why you are unhappy PCs are still around. Though personally i don't see why one sh

"But PCs are still around. I’m not happy about this." Would be nice to read why you are unhappy PCs are still around. Though personally i don't see why one should replace the other. Their own dimensions, weight, power inside etc, limits or enables one device to do something the other can't. And touch is nice, but think you really need to be able to pair a mouse to your iPad to get a desktop feeling anyway. Then again, those are just my personal opinions about using iPad as a desktop.

ianai 9y ago
For one, the constant going between mouse and keyboard forces too much context switching. Office keyboards also tend toward un-ergonomics.
- Retric 9y ago
  Tablets are inherently worse from an ergonomic standpoint. The only advantage is the new horrible posture is different so it seems ok for a while. PS: Humans need several inches of separation between their hands and where their eyes are pointing to be comfortable for 8+ hours a day for decades.
  - ianai 9y ago
    Very true, just trying to stub-in what he may have in mind. At a basic level, IT really hasn’t disrupted the convenience of pen and paper. I can still do a lot more and much more quickly with pen+paper than a computer. Even more so a whiteboard. Also backlit screens are awful. What are some other traditional PC drawbacks?
- namelost 9y ago
  How does a tablet fix that? The distance between touchscreen and keyboard is even further than between keyboard and a trackpad.
  - ianai 9y ago
    I try to address it by learning console based tools.
- j45 9y ago
  Mouse allows precision selection and clicking on text that no amount of keyboarding, touching, or apple penciling. If I have a remote desktop type of task, there's no other reasonable way to do it than to click fast with a mouse, like I would type fast if it was a shell task.
  - zeveb 9y ago
    > Mouse allows precision selection and clicking on text that no amount of keyboarding, touching, or apple penciling. Ummm, good keybindings are better/faster than a mouse. E.g. were I writing this in emacs I could select 'keybindings' with C-r k RET C-SPC M-C-f; I could then copy it with M-SPC — all in less time than it takes to switch my hands from the home row to the mouse.
    - j45 9y ago
      The thing I ask you to consider is a valid use case may exist for others outside how you use tech. There's likely little question the vast majority of laptop users use a mouse or trackpad for their day to day. From a power user perspective: I'm not aware I can use those keybindings to select text in any iOS app and not just in a shell app? I'm very well versed with keyboard shortcuts, type 100 wpm, and use vim regularly. A mouse will always be faster for through administering GUI apps where there are settings screen with many dropdowns and checkboxes on every screen. I log in to as many remote desktops and vms with a GUI as command line. I interchangeably work between Linux, Mac and Windows in a day. Selexting text in any iOS app also can't be done by keyboard shortcut as far as I know. The mouse again provides the most precision, and I'm not a huge fan of it. The apple pen might be an admission of the need for precision on iPad for more use cases. It wouldn't kill Apple to expose the mouse capability so I wouldn't have to consider a surface pro. The iPad with a mouse would be amazing laptop for most.
      - zeveb 9y ago
        > The thing I ask you to consider is a valid use case may exist for others outside how you use tech. Oh, certainly. I find the lack of a mouse to be almost as insufferable as the lack of a keyboard. > I'm not aware I can use those keybindings to select text in any iOS app and not just in a shell app? There's no reason why iOS couldn't incorporate more-complex keybindings throughout, and it fact macOS does incorporate some emacs-like keybindings. > A mouse will always be faster for through administering GUI apps where there are settings screen with many dropdowns and checkboxes on every screen. Actually, take a look at customize[0]: it's a complete, mouse- or keyboard-driven GUI (yes, that includes buttons & checkboxes). It can be pretty nice to be able to C-s and interactive-search a GUI panel. I certainly won't deny that a mouse or stylus is useful for precision GUI manipulation — I'm just noting that more can be achieved with a keyboard that typical 1984-Macintosh-derived GUIs attempt. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvihNaXANW0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvihNaXANW0
- flohofwoe 9y ago
  This issue does not exist on notebooks though where keyboard and touchpad are so close. I didn't understand why vim users on desktop made it such an important point to never having to use the mouse until I tried on a keyboard+mouse setup, it didn't occur to me that reaching for the mouse is a problem because I mostly used vim on a laptop with touchpad.
  - ianai 9y ago
    It seems better on a laptop, but it's not ideal and there's still context switching.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
talmand 9y ago
I am curious about this as well. I would want a definition of PC as well, considering that part of the experiment is converting the tablet to what I consider a PC. All that's missing from the equation is a mouse. Seems to me we're just quickly getting to the point of debating over the OS and software on whatever piece of hardware we choose to use.
kiddico 9y ago
I think he was saying he's not happy about PCs still being around because if they are that means he's lost his bet/his prediction is wrong. I can't tell. He meanders a lot, so I'm not sure if that's supposed to be connected to the introduction or if it's just a passing comment.

ianai 9y ago

For one, the constant going between mouse and keyboard forces too much context switching. Office keyboards also tend toward un-ergonomics.

Retric 9y ago
Tablets are inherently worse from an ergonomic standpoint. The only advantage is the new horrible posture is different so it seems ok for a while. PS: Humans need several inches of separation between their hands and where their eyes are pointing to be comfortable for 8+ hours a day for decades.
- ianai 9y ago
  Very true, just trying to stub-in what he may have in mind. At a basic level, IT really hasn’t disrupted the convenience of pen and paper. I can still do a lot more and much more quickly with pen+paper than a computer. Even more so a whiteboard. Also backlit screens are awful. What are some other traditional PC drawbacks?
namelost 9y ago
How does a tablet fix that? The distance between touchscreen and keyboard is even further than between keyboard and a trackpad.
- ianai 9y ago
  I try to address it by learning console based tools.
j45 9y ago
Mouse allows precision selection and clicking on text that no amount of keyboarding, touching, or apple penciling. If I have a remote desktop type of task, there's no other reasonable way to do it than to click fast with a mouse, like I would type fast if it was a shell task.
- zeveb 9y ago
  > Mouse allows precision selection and clicking on text that no amount of keyboarding, touching, or apple penciling. Ummm, good keybindings are better/faster than a mouse. E.g. were I writing this in emacs I could select 'keybindings' with C-r k RET C-SPC M-C-f; I could then copy it with M-SPC — all in less time than it takes to switch my hands from the home row to the mouse.
  - j45 9y ago
    The thing I ask you to consider is a valid use case may exist for others outside how you use tech. There's likely little question the vast majority of laptop users use a mouse or trackpad for their day to day. From a power user perspective: I'm not aware I can use those keybindings to select text in any iOS app and not just in a shell app? I'm very well versed with keyboard shortcuts, type 100 wpm, and use vim regularly. A mouse will always be faster for through administering GUI apps where there are settings screen with many dropdowns and checkboxes on every screen. I log in to as many remote desktops and vms with a GUI as command line. I interchangeably work between Linux, Mac and Windows in a day. Selexting text in any iOS app also can't be done by keyboard shortcut as far as I know. The mouse again provides the most precision, and I'm not a huge fan of it. The apple pen might be an admission of the need for precision on iPad for more use cases. It wouldn't kill Apple to expose the mouse capability so I wouldn't have to consider a surface pro. The iPad with a mouse would be amazing laptop for most.
    - zeveb 9y ago
      > The thing I ask you to consider is a valid use case may exist for others outside how you use tech. Oh, certainly. I find the lack of a mouse to be almost as insufferable as the lack of a keyboard. > I'm not aware I can use those keybindings to select text in any iOS app and not just in a shell app? There's no reason why iOS couldn't incorporate more-complex keybindings throughout, and it fact macOS does incorporate some emacs-like keybindings. > A mouse will always be faster for through administering GUI apps where there are settings screen with many dropdowns and checkboxes on every screen. Actually, take a look at customize[0]: it's a complete, mouse- or keyboard-driven GUI (yes, that includes buttons & checkboxes). It can be pretty nice to be able to C-s and interactive-search a GUI panel. I certainly won't deny that a mouse or stylus is useful for precision GUI manipulation — I'm just noting that more can be achieved with a keyboard that typical 1984-Macintosh-derived GUIs attempt. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvihNaXANW0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvihNaXANW0
flohofwoe 9y ago
This issue does not exist on notebooks though where keyboard and touchpad are so close. I didn't understand why vim users on desktop made it such an important point to never having to use the mouse until I tried on a keyboard+mouse setup, it didn't occur to me that reaching for the mouse is a problem because I mostly used vim on a laptop with touchpad.
- ianai 9y ago
  It seems better on a laptop, but it's not ideal and there's still context switching.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

talmand 9y ago

I am curious about this as well. I would want a definition of PC as well, considering that part of the experiment is converting the tablet to what I consider a PC. All that's missing from the equation is a mouse. Seems to me we're just quickly getting to the point of debating over the OS and software on whatever piece of hardware we choose to use.

kiddico 9y ago

I think he was saying he's not happy about PCs still being around because if they are that means he's lost his bet/his prediction is wrong. I can't tell. He meanders a lot, so I'm not sure if that's supposed to be connected to the introduction or if it's just a passing comment.