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This article's main topic is just "tech companies are building big offices", dressed up in some purple prose. And they're also to blame for high rents. But if t

This article's main topic is just "tech companies are building big offices", dressed up in some purple prose. And they're also to blame for high rents. But if they build apartments to help ease the housing shortage, that's a "company town" and we can't have that either. And Amazon is a "commandeering leech" which "suck[s] up our resources and refus[es] to participate in daily upkeep", but when Google offers Mountain View neighborhood benefits, that proves it's "seeking to wrest control of the city from its government". I suppose the next step is to blame the Google buses for being "elitist" and "gentrifying", while in the next paragraph, blaming Google for putting cars on the road and making traffic worse.... “Friedrich Spee von Langenfeld, a priest who heard the confessions of condemned witches, wrote in 1631 the Cautio Criminalis (‘prudence in criminal cases’) in which he bitingly described the decision tree for condemning accused witches: If the witch had led an evil and improper life, she was guilty; if she had led a good and proper life, this too was a proof, for witches dissemble and try to appear especially virtuous. After the woman was put in prison: if she was afraid, this proved her guilt; if she was not afraid, this proved her guilt, for witches characteristically pretend innocence and wear a bold front. Or on hearing of a denunciation of witchcraft against her, she might seek flight or remain; if she ran, that proved her guilt; if she remained, the devil had detained her so she could not get away.”

mc32 9y ago
These people only know how to tear things down. I don't like FB or even Mark personally. But this is ridiculous and would not unfairly be characterized as sour grapes or simply not wanting progress at all to spite some good careers. Society never moves at the pace of life. It always lags --even in command economies like China's or to a degree S Korea and Singapore. Adjustment takes time. At the same time as you point out, often times it's damned if they do, damned if they don't. It's almost as if they would feel better if FB automated all the jobs away --not just manual labor low hanging fruit, but all jobs so that they would not have anything to blame on FB --except now everyone who used to work for them is now unemployed (presuming much of the industry learns from FB and also automates --in a purposely extreme example)
- countryslicker 9y ago
  Why don't FB/Google/Apple/etc expand to Auburn, CA? Or Lincoln, CA? or Lincoln, NE? I really don't think that putting the next 5000 employees next to the last 10000 employees improves productivity. Spread out. Spread the wealth and the pain. Make yourself less vulnerable to a single point of failure.
  - ThrustVectoring 9y ago
    It's not just about productivity from the employer's side, but also about the negotiating power from employees. When FB/Google/Apple are all in the SF Bay Area, one of their elite employees can more easily get competitive offers from the others.
- metaphorm 9y ago
  >about: Google fanatic from your HN profile
j05huaNathaniel 9y ago
Funny how progressivism is cannibalized by progressives.It's almost like a disease or a mental disorder.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- sctb 9y ago
  Would you please stop violating the guidelines, which ask you to post civilly and substantively? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
tanilama 9y ago
Good point. The bus thing is not the only example those people are contradictory against themselves. They blame techies for the hike of real-estate price, which to certain degree is justified. But at the same time they also oppose any construction of high density accommodation, blaming the company for destroying the neighborhood culture, talking about the good old days with orchards and trees. I think what is really important here is, story like this fits into the narrative that big companies are inherently evil, and live their success on the misery of everyone else. I think you will be surprised how wide-spread it is, even on HN. My biggest issue is their motivation: it is completely destructive. The only resolution, if according to them, is to reverse this, which I don't know how to accomplish, without severely disrupting the local economy, but I guess they don't care either, they got the clicks already. shrug.
- michaelt 9y ago
  They blame techies for the hike of real-estate price, [...] they also oppose any construction of high density accommodation My theory is there are three parties in this discussion. Renter Roy can't afford a house, and thinks tech companies' money is bidding up prices. Homeowner Harold has lived and worked in this neighbourhood for 40 years and doesn't want its character to change and his house's value to fall. Techie Tammy wants somewhere to live, she'd prefer not to spend a fortune to live in a hovel while her neighbours shame her for gentrifying. Any pair of Roy, Harold and Tammy can get on OK - but it's just not possible for all three of them to get what they want. There seems to be a contradiction - but that's because any time Roy and Tammy are about to agree, Harold is motivated to enter the conversation and disagree - and the same thing happens when Harold and Tammy are about to agree.
  - cupscale 9y ago
    Actually, does Harold ever agree with either party? Tammy and Roy both want low housing costs, and Harold doesn't. Sure, you can get to an armistice with Harold and Tammy: Housing costs are high but your salary is such that even spending 66% of your pay on housing leaves you with an ample amount of money. But I wouldn't call that agreement anything other than begrudging.
confounded 9y ago
Appreciate the scare quotes, but company towns aren’t much fun for many employees to live in either. Lots of people want to be part of a community that feels diverse and functional, rather than be part of some weird polarizing over-class just because they took a job.
- nostrademons 9y ago
  For many people at the big companies, the job is the community that feels diverse and functional. It's just a re-drawing of boundaries. In many modern American cities or suburbs, you don't get community anyway; I can tell you (having experience on both the inside and the outside) that Google has a lot more community than Sunnyvale does.
  - Nullabillity 9y ago
    And what happens to (your access to) that community when you quit Google?
    - eru 9y ago
      It's actually not too bad. I quit, and am still friends with them. You can still get a visitor pass to go boardgaming etc. Of course that might be just a best case scenario..
      - ryanbrunner 9y ago
        Doesn't that seem a bit insane to you though? You're essentially saying the company is permitting you to continue your friendships. What about when they stop doing that?
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
nostrademons 9y ago
Or the age-old water test, where you throw a witch into the river. If she floats, she's a witch! If she sinks, well, she's dead anyway.
avar 9y ago
The article is a badly written opinion piece that meanders through various topics, but your critique of it is beating a strawman. It's not making the "you can't win" argument that tech companies should be critiqued whether or not they build housing. Rather, it's that they're supposedly constructing "company towns" in the sense that the housing stock they build won't be for sale, and presumably only rented to employees. If you get fired you also get evicted. Furthermore they'll own the nearby retail space as well. Will an Oculus competitor be for sale in the Facebook-owned chain of stores? Will someone trying to organize a Facebook union be allowed to use the meeting spaces at the Facebook town hall?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- humanrebar 9y ago
  > If you get fired you also get evicted. If you get fired, you basically lose your healthcare, which in many cases is much worse. Though quite a number of Americans seem fine with that arrangement for some reason.
  - TrickyRick 9y ago
    If I'm a healthy individual then the risk that I need my healthcare insurance are low (But it has a big impact on my economy if I do need it). However the risk that I need some form of housing is 100% and the impact of not having it is huge which to me makes it a bigger risk. However YMMV depending on your situation.
    - jrimbault 9y ago
      >If I'm a healthy individual I don't think I know any family without a member of it having some kind of medical condition. (bad turn of phrase, but do I get the point across ?)
      - ryanbrunner 9y ago
geezerjay 9y ago
> This article's main topic is just "tech companies are building big offices", dressed up in some purple prose. It seems to me that the article's main topic is that tech companies are building company towns, comprising not only housing units (The expansion of its headquarters will boast fifteen hundred units of housing, 15 percent of which it claims will be “offered at below-market rates.”) but also commercial spaces to provide town services such as retail stores and police stations. The article goes on about what the author perceives as being the perils of a company town, complete with emotive platitudes regarding capitalism, but it is in fact an article about company towns, not "tech companies are building big offices". I really don't understand how you were able to completely miss the whole point made in the article. Have you actually read it?
MR4D 9y ago
Your last paragraph applies to so much in the media that it simply cannot be understated. Thank you for sharing this. I wish other people could look at all articles through this lens to see the biases that authors have.
- MR4D 9y ago
  The fact that someone down voted me is just hysterical !
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

mc32 9y ago

These people only know how to tear things down. I don't like FB or even Mark personally. But this is ridiculous and would not unfairly be characterized as sour grapes or simply not wanting progress at all to spite some good careers. Society never moves at the pace of life. It always lags --even in command economies like China's or to a degree S Korea and Singapore. Adjustment takes time. At the same time as you point out, often times it's damned if they do, damned if they don't. It's almost as if they would feel better if FB automated all the jobs away --not just manual labor low hanging fruit, but all jobs so that they would not have anything to blame on FB --except now everyone who used to work for them is now unemployed (presuming much of the industry learns from FB and also automates --in a purposely extreme example)

countryslicker 9y ago
Why don't FB/Google/Apple/etc expand to Auburn, CA? Or Lincoln, CA? or Lincoln, NE? I really don't think that putting the next 5000 employees next to the last 10000 employees improves productivity. Spread out. Spread the wealth and the pain. Make yourself less vulnerable to a single point of failure.
- ThrustVectoring 9y ago
  It's not just about productivity from the employer's side, but also about the negotiating power from employees. When FB/Google/Apple are all in the SF Bay Area, one of their elite employees can more easily get competitive offers from the others.
metaphorm 9y ago
>about: Google fanatic from your HN profile

j05huaNathaniel 9y ago

Funny how progressivism is cannibalized by progressives.It's almost like a disease or a mental disorder.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
sctb 9y ago
Would you please stop violating the guidelines, which ask you to post civilly and substantively? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

tanilama 9y ago

Good point. The bus thing is not the only example those people are contradictory against themselves. They blame techies for the hike of real-estate price, which to certain degree is justified. But at the same time they also oppose any construction of high density accommodation, blaming the company for destroying the neighborhood culture, talking about the good old days with orchards and trees. I think what is really important here is, story like this fits into the narrative that big companies are inherently evil, and live their success on the misery of everyone else. I think you will be surprised how wide-spread it is, even on HN. My biggest issue is their motivation: it is completely destructive. The only resolution, if according to them, is to reverse this, which I don't know how to accomplish, without severely disrupting the local economy, but I guess they don't care either, they got the clicks already. shrug.

michaelt 9y ago
They blame techies for the hike of real-estate price, [...] they also oppose any construction of high density accommodation My theory is there are three parties in this discussion. Renter Roy can't afford a house, and thinks tech companies' money is bidding up prices. Homeowner Harold has lived and worked in this neighbourhood for 40 years and doesn't want its character to change and his house's value to fall. Techie Tammy wants somewhere to live, she'd prefer not to spend a fortune to live in a hovel while her neighbours shame her for gentrifying. Any pair of Roy, Harold and Tammy can get on OK - but it's just not possible for all three of them to get what they want. There seems to be a contradiction - but that's because any time Roy and Tammy are about to agree, Harold is motivated to enter the conversation and disagree - and the same thing happens when Harold and Tammy are about to agree.
- cupscale 9y ago
  Actually, does Harold ever agree with either party? Tammy and Roy both want low housing costs, and Harold doesn't. Sure, you can get to an armistice with Harold and Tammy: Housing costs are high but your salary is such that even spending 66% of your pay on housing leaves you with an ample amount of money. But I wouldn't call that agreement anything other than begrudging.

confounded 9y ago

Appreciate the scare quotes, but company towns aren’t much fun for many employees to live in either. Lots of people want to be part of a community that feels diverse and functional, rather than be part of some weird polarizing over-class just because they took a job.

nostrademons 9y ago
For many people at the big companies, the job is the community that feels diverse and functional. It's just a re-drawing of boundaries. In many modern American cities or suburbs, you don't get community anyway; I can tell you (having experience on both the inside and the outside) that Google has a lot more community than Sunnyvale does.
- Nullabillity 9y ago
  And what happens to (your access to) that community when you quit Google?
  - eru 9y ago
    It's actually not too bad. I quit, and am still friends with them. You can still get a visitor pass to go boardgaming etc. Of course that might be just a best case scenario..
    - ryanbrunner 9y ago
      Doesn't that seem a bit insane to you though? You're essentially saying the company is permitting you to continue your friendships. What about when they stop doing that?
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]

nostrademons 9y ago

Or the age-old water test, where you throw a witch into the river. If she floats, she's a witch! If she sinks, well, she's dead anyway.

avar 9y ago

The article is a badly written opinion piece that meanders through various topics, but your critique of it is beating a strawman. It's not making the "you can't win" argument that tech companies should be critiqued whether or not they build housing. Rather, it's that they're supposedly constructing "company towns" in the sense that the housing stock they build won't be for sale, and presumably only rented to employees. If you get fired you also get evicted. Furthermore they'll own the nearby retail space as well. Will an Oculus competitor be for sale in the Facebook-owned chain of stores? Will someone trying to organize a Facebook union be allowed to use the meeting spaces at the Facebook town hall?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
humanrebar 9y ago
> If you get fired you also get evicted. If you get fired, you basically lose your healthcare, which in many cases is much worse. Though quite a number of Americans seem fine with that arrangement for some reason.
- TrickyRick 9y ago
  If I'm a healthy individual then the risk that I need my healthcare insurance are low (But it has a big impact on my economy if I do need it). However the risk that I need some form of housing is 100% and the impact of not having it is huge which to me makes it a bigger risk. However YMMV depending on your situation.
  - jrimbault 9y ago
    >If I'm a healthy individual I don't think I know any family without a member of it having some kind of medical condition. (bad turn of phrase, but do I get the point across ?)
    - ryanbrunner 9y ago

geezerjay 9y ago

> This article's main topic is just "tech companies are building big offices", dressed up in some purple prose. It seems to me that the article's main topic is that tech companies are building company towns, comprising not only housing units (The expansion of its headquarters will boast fifteen hundred units of housing, 15 percent of which it claims will be “offered at below-market rates.”) but also commercial spaces to provide town services such as retail stores and police stations. The article goes on about what the author perceives as being the perils of a company town, complete with emotive platitudes regarding capitalism, but it is in fact an article about company towns, not "tech companies are building big offices". I really don't understand how you were able to completely miss the whole point made in the article. Have you actually read it?

MR4D 9y ago

Your last paragraph applies to so much in the media that it simply cannot be understated. Thank you for sharing this. I wish other people could look at all articles through this lens to see the biases that authors have.

MR4D 9y ago
The fact that someone down voted me is just hysterical !

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]