3 ms·

The line can surely be blurry, but I'd say that reporting people for doing something that has no effect on you, and harms no one, is snitching. Being an undocu

The line can surely be blurry, but I'd say that reporting people for doing something that has no effect on you, and harms no one, is snitching. Being an undocumented immigrant in America is no more harmful to society than being a jew in 1930s Germany.

BartSaM 9y ago
- pugworthy 9y ago
  And next we can ask, "How do we know some of the jews weren't criminals?" perhaps?
- yodon 9y ago
  Wow. The translation of your "How do you know that such an imigrant is not being a criminal?" to the equivalent statement in 1930's Germany is so direct and so poignant, I would have thought you were trying to support the parent's post, but I believe you're using that line to try to fault their thinking (which I find genuinely frightening in terms of the object lesson it presents on the ease of vilifying a "them" group, and how easily that kind of rhetoric can creep into polite conversation)
  - BartSaM 9y ago
    This was posted as an opposite to what OP posted, to point out his sided point of view while fortifying his opinion with pretty much unrelated, emotional part of history. I made sarcasm very obvious, especially with exactly saying it was that, in the second line. Learn how to read in between lines. Edited the post so no one else thinks it is the real reply.
    - yodon 9y ago
      When talking about potentially inflammatory topics on the web, expecting the reader to "read between the lines" as you say is probably never a workable idea as there can be and are enough potential speakers across the entire spectrum of opinion that any intended meaning could be possible and potentially valid for "reading between the lines" (hence Poe's Law[0] and other challenges in the discussion of complex topics on the web when the range of speaker opinions and audience opinions is large and unknown). No one ever expects Poe's law to apply to their own sarcasm, but unfortunately it always does. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
mc32 9y ago
They are doing potential harm to the millions of immigrants who want to come to the country legally. Many of whom wait years to get their visas and get work. They are undermining legal immigrants. My preference would be a system such as Singapore, Japan, Australia, Canada, etc. where they favor people whose skills are in short supply at home. Make it easier to hire high demand low availability skills as well as seasonal workers legally while simultaneously making it very hard to hire undocumented workers in order to encourage legal pathways.
- jonny_eh 9y ago
  I'm a legal immigrant in the US. The presence of undocumented immigrants has zero negative effect on me.
  - mc32 9y ago
    So... Kind of like tax cheats. Zero effect. Let's make it optional.
relics443 9y ago
Ignoring the fact that it's against the law, I'd say there's a problem of illegal immigrants taking jobs away from citizens, or at the very least lowering the wages that a citizen can expect for lower end jobs. Then, when they have children, they get benefits that citizens pay for. Now throw in the fact that if even one illegal immigrant commits one crime, that's one more crime committed than if there was no illegal immigrant. To compare the situation to Jews in 1930s Germany is foolish at best. Edit - I just noticed that you use the term "undocumented immigrant." They're illegal immigrants, and ignoring that doesn't change the fact.
- jonny_eh 9y ago
  Being in the US without status is a civil violation, not a criminal offense. The Supreme Court ruled in 2012 [1] that a removable alien being in the US is not a crime. They can be deported, sure, but it's not a crime and therefore shouldn't be locked up (except as a temporary measure before deportation). It's only a crime if you crossed illegally, but that's a fraction of the cases. Most "removable aliens" entered legally, but overstayed their visas. > Now throw in the fact that if even one illegal immigrant commits one crime, that's one more crime committed than if there was no illegal immigrant. Replace "illegal immigrant" with "jew", and you'll hopefully see my point. Keep in mind that undocumented immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than citizens. They lower the crime rate. [1] https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/567/11-182/opinion3.html https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/567/11-182/opini...

BartSaM 9y ago

pugworthy 9y ago
And next we can ask, "How do we know some of the jews weren't criminals?" perhaps?
yodon 9y ago
Wow. The translation of your "How do you know that such an imigrant is not being a criminal?" to the equivalent statement in 1930's Germany is so direct and so poignant, I would have thought you were trying to support the parent's post, but I believe you're using that line to try to fault their thinking (which I find genuinely frightening in terms of the object lesson it presents on the ease of vilifying a "them" group, and how easily that kind of rhetoric can creep into polite conversation)
- BartSaM 9y ago
  This was posted as an opposite to what OP posted, to point out his sided point of view while fortifying his opinion with pretty much unrelated, emotional part of history. I made sarcasm very obvious, especially with exactly saying it was that, in the second line. Learn how to read in between lines. Edited the post so no one else thinks it is the real reply.
  - yodon 9y ago
    When talking about potentially inflammatory topics on the web, expecting the reader to "read between the lines" as you say is probably never a workable idea as there can be and are enough potential speakers across the entire spectrum of opinion that any intended meaning could be possible and potentially valid for "reading between the lines" (hence Poe's Law[0] and other challenges in the discussion of complex topics on the web when the range of speaker opinions and audience opinions is large and unknown). No one ever expects Poe's law to apply to their own sarcasm, but unfortunately it always does. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

mc32 9y ago

They are doing potential harm to the millions of immigrants who want to come to the country legally. Many of whom wait years to get their visas and get work. They are undermining legal immigrants. My preference would be a system such as Singapore, Japan, Australia, Canada, etc. where they favor people whose skills are in short supply at home. Make it easier to hire high demand low availability skills as well as seasonal workers legally while simultaneously making it very hard to hire undocumented workers in order to encourage legal pathways.

jonny_eh 9y ago
I'm a legal immigrant in the US. The presence of undocumented immigrants has zero negative effect on me.
- mc32 9y ago
  So... Kind of like tax cheats. Zero effect. Let's make it optional.

relics443 9y ago

Ignoring the fact that it's against the law, I'd say there's a problem of illegal immigrants taking jobs away from citizens, or at the very least lowering the wages that a citizen can expect for lower end jobs. Then, when they have children, they get benefits that citizens pay for. Now throw in the fact that if even one illegal immigrant commits one crime, that's one more crime committed than if there was no illegal immigrant. To compare the situation to Jews in 1930s Germany is foolish at best. Edit - I just noticed that you use the term "undocumented immigrant." They're illegal immigrants, and ignoring that doesn't change the fact.

jonny_eh 9y ago
Being in the US without status is a civil violation, not a criminal offense. The Supreme Court ruled in 2012 [1] that a removable alien being in the US is not a crime. They can be deported, sure, but it's not a crime and therefore shouldn't be locked up (except as a temporary measure before deportation). It's only a crime if you crossed illegally, but that's a fraction of the cases. Most "removable aliens" entered legally, but overstayed their visas. > Now throw in the fact that if even one illegal immigrant commits one crime, that's one more crime committed than if there was no illegal immigrant. Replace "illegal immigrant" with "jew", and you'll hopefully see my point. Keep in mind that undocumented immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than citizens. They lower the crime rate. [1] https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/567/11-182/opinion3.html https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/567/11-182/opini...