6 ms·

Well no that's incorrect. A targeted ad is worth significantly more than one without targeting. I buy ads at a $0.25 cpm and a $40 cpm, the only difference is t

by soared 9y ago

Well no that's incorrect. A targeted ad is worth significantly more than one without targeting. I buy ads at a $0.25 cpm and a $40 cpm, the only difference is targeting data.

manigandham 9y ago
You can still show the ads and there are a lot of other signals and context to use. Also other than Facebook or google with strong identity, 3rd party data on the open web is next to useless. If you’re paying $40cpm for data, you’re getting ripped off.
- soared 9y ago
  Sorry to be that guy, but: I spend over $5m a year on rtb ads. I literally spend 50 hours a week doing this. If the money I spend doesn't produce verifiable results, I lose it. For example, that 40cpm is to reach a pool of <1000 users who are in charge of purchasing for networks of hospitals, and my ads are for MRI machines. 3rd party data is unbelievably valuable, probably $1.5 million of my budget goes to data costs alone.
  - robertlagrant 9y ago
    Might be better off spending £5k+ on personal gifts for each decision maker than bothering with Web advertising if it's that few people you're targeting :-)
    - ben_w 9y ago
      I may not be a lawyer, but gifts of $5k to induce someone to purchase a thing for their workplace feels like it should count as corruption and bribery. If someone tried to do that to me, I’d report the attempt to the company lawyer, and I’d doubt the quality of the thing they were selling was as good as the quality of the thing the other poster was advertising.
      - sirk390 9y ago
        5k+ per person would be bribery. I hope he meant 5k in total..., 1000 gifts of 5$ would be ok
        midwife_cry_sys 9y ago
        I'm sure he meant what he said. Do the math. He was trying to point out that it would cost the same either way. But if you give the mark the money, it would have a much greater effect than 5k on silly web adds.
      - diN0bot 9y ago
        what about a $5k rebate or discount?
        ben_w 9y ago
        Difficult to say. My mental framing has, as a result of my previous post, become “be suspicious”.
      - midwife_cry_sys 9y ago
        Oh my God. Seriously? You'd report them? Snitches get stitches. Jam up one of my guys, you'll wish you hadn't. If he's starting with 5k you could easily get a lot more. That is the price for suckers. Course you don't have to take anything but that could be hazardous to yous health. I'm just saying. Take the fucking gift.
        zentiggr 9y ago
        That honestly sounds borderline mafia or cartel style... "We're going to bribe you, you're going to take it, and since we all know it's illegal, you're on the hook with us all. Welcome to the game kid."
        ben_w 9y ago
        If I’m ever in a position to be worth anyone trying to bribe me, I’ll try to make sure nobody is in a position to threaten me like that. Fortunately for me, I don’t control any budgets.
    - Spooky23 9y ago
      In the old days, you would do that. Now that’s not allowed in most places, plus you need to hire fancy salespeople to deliver those gifts.
  - erik_seaberg 9y ago
    They're swayed by ads? I'm surprised they don't need to do a formal RFP among the handful of companies who can make an MRI certified for medical use.
    - yread 9y ago
      Who do you send the RFP to?
    - willvarfar 9y ago
      The targeted viewer may see the ad and start thinking "we need a better modern MRI with whatever fancy feature I read about here" or "we could hire a new MRI from xyz cheaper than our current contract!". Sometimes you can prod your potential customers into action.
  - manigandham 9y ago
    That doesn't add up. I've managed budgets a magnitude higher, know the founders of every major SSP and DMP, and now specialize in B2B marketing for F1000 companies with long sales cycles. If you're really trying to reach a pool that small, open web advertising is incredibly inefficient. This is well understood by the adtech community and even the flashy new "ABM" companies will tell you the same. 3rd party data is universally terrible. At best, it'll work at scale (of millions) on general demographic details but will definitely not recognize 1000 people on the open web. That kind of list might work on Linkedin or Facebook with email targeting but it would be easier to focus on niche trade sites without any data, or just use a direct sales team. That $1.5M in data you're paying for would have much better ROI with a good VP of sales.
  - lostlogin 9y ago
    That anyone would be influenced in what MR scanner they buy due to Facebook advert is amazing. It would also explain things I hear from radiographers overseas. Wow. Are you able to state which vendors buy Facebook adverts (I assume you can’t)?
fny 9y ago
It still holds the data alone isn't worth much. If you've built an ad platform with customers, reach, and the ability to target people given data, then sure, you can convert that raw material into something more valuable. And once you sell the derived product (ads), you'll be taxed on your income. I feel like you're arguing that dirt is worth as much as the farm that one could build with it.

by soared 9y ago

Well no that's incorrect. A targeted ad is worth significantly more than one without targeting. I buy ads at a $0.25 cpm and a $40 cpm, the only difference is targeting data.

manigandham 9y ago

You can still show the ads and there are a lot of other signals and context to use. Also other than Facebook or google with strong identity, 3rd party data on the open web is next to useless. If you’re paying $40cpm for data, you’re getting ripped off.

soared 9y ago
Sorry to be that guy, but: I spend over $5m a year on rtb ads. I literally spend 50 hours a week doing this. If the money I spend doesn't produce verifiable results, I lose it. For example, that 40cpm is to reach a pool of <1000 users who are in charge of purchasing for networks of hospitals, and my ads are for MRI machines. 3rd party data is unbelievably valuable, probably $1.5 million of my budget goes to data costs alone.
- robertlagrant 9y ago
  Might be better off spending £5k+ on personal gifts for each decision maker than bothering with Web advertising if it's that few people you're targeting :-)
  - ben_w 9y ago
    I may not be a lawyer, but gifts of $5k to induce someone to purchase a thing for their workplace feels like it should count as corruption and bribery. If someone tried to do that to me, I’d report the attempt to the company lawyer, and I’d doubt the quality of the thing they were selling was as good as the quality of the thing the other poster was advertising.
    - sirk390 9y ago
      5k+ per person would be bribery. I hope he meant 5k in total..., 1000 gifts of 5$ would be ok
      - midwife_cry_sys 9y ago
        I'm sure he meant what he said. Do the math. He was trying to point out that it would cost the same either way. But if you give the mark the money, it would have a much greater effect than 5k on silly web adds.
    - diN0bot 9y ago
      what about a $5k rebate or discount?
      - ben_w 9y ago
        Difficult to say. My mental framing has, as a result of my previous post, become “be suspicious”.
    - midwife_cry_sys 9y ago
      Oh my God. Seriously? You'd report them? Snitches get stitches. Jam up one of my guys, you'll wish you hadn't. If he's starting with 5k you could easily get a lot more. That is the price for suckers. Course you don't have to take anything but that could be hazardous to yous health. I'm just saying. Take the fucking gift.
      - zentiggr 9y ago
        That honestly sounds borderline mafia or cartel style... "We're going to bribe you, you're going to take it, and since we all know it's illegal, you're on the hook with us all. Welcome to the game kid."
      - ben_w 9y ago
        If I’m ever in a position to be worth anyone trying to bribe me, I’ll try to make sure nobody is in a position to threaten me like that. Fortunately for me, I don’t control any budgets.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    In the old days, you would do that. Now that’s not allowed in most places, plus you need to hire fancy salespeople to deliver those gifts.
- erik_seaberg 9y ago
  They're swayed by ads? I'm surprised they don't need to do a formal RFP among the handful of companies who can make an MRI certified for medical use.
  - yread 9y ago
    Who do you send the RFP to?
  - willvarfar 9y ago
    The targeted viewer may see the ad and start thinking "we need a better modern MRI with whatever fancy feature I read about here" or "we could hire a new MRI from xyz cheaper than our current contract!". Sometimes you can prod your potential customers into action.
- manigandham 9y ago
  That doesn't add up. I've managed budgets a magnitude higher, know the founders of every major SSP and DMP, and now specialize in B2B marketing for F1000 companies with long sales cycles. If you're really trying to reach a pool that small, open web advertising is incredibly inefficient. This is well understood by the adtech community and even the flashy new "ABM" companies will tell you the same. 3rd party data is universally terrible. At best, it'll work at scale (of millions) on general demographic details but will definitely not recognize 1000 people on the open web. That kind of list might work on Linkedin or Facebook with email targeting but it would be easier to focus on niche trade sites without any data, or just use a direct sales team. That $1.5M in data you're paying for would have much better ROI with a good VP of sales.
- lostlogin 9y ago
  That anyone would be influenced in what MR scanner they buy due to Facebook advert is amazing. It would also explain things I hear from radiographers overseas. Wow. Are you able to state which vendors buy Facebook adverts (I assume you can’t)?

fny 9y ago

It still holds the data alone isn't worth much. If you've built an ad platform with customers, reach, and the ability to target people given data, then sure, you can convert that raw material into something more valuable. And once you sell the derived product (ads), you'll be taxed on your income. I feel like you're arguing that dirt is worth as much as the farm that one could build with it.