6 ms·

Using the black market as a standard, your identity-related information isn't worth enough to be taxable.[0][1][2] The more common data you give away is worth

by fny 9y ago

Using the black market as a standard, your identity-related information isn't worth enough to be taxable.[0][1][2] The more common data you give away is worth even less. Your "gift" is akin to giving away a few grains of sand to a glassmaker who provides a free grain counting service. Now let's say you dumped a lot sand that we could value at $10K. Any smart sand-counting glassmaker will claim his once "free" sand counting costs $10K, which amounts to an equal, zero-profit trade. [0]: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit/what-your-identity-is-worth-on-black-market.aspx http://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit/what-your-identity-is... [1]: https://qz.com/460482/heres-what-your-stolen-identity-goes-for-on-the-internets-black-market/ https://qz.com/460482/heres-what-your-stolen-identity-goes-f... [2]: http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-your-personal-data-costs-on-the-dark-web-2015-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-your-personal-...

bendews 9y ago
It is when you have 3B records
- fny 9y ago
  If one company sells anything to another company, that sale is taxed as income like any other sale. So yes, if Yahoo sold 3B records, that would be taxed, and the recipient company can choose to book that purchase as an asset on their balance sheet and will likely expense the purchase. Hell they could even choose to depreciate the value too for as long as they follow GAAP. OP mentioned his data alone, which isn't worth squat unless the transaction says otherwise. Meaning, if OP sold his data to a company for a taxable amount, he would be taxed on that income.
  - Alaina66 9y ago
    i͎ b͎a͎s͎i͎c͎a͎l͎l͎y͎ g͎e͎t͎ p͎a͎i͎d͎ i͎n͎ t͎h͎e͎ r͎a͎n͎g͎e͎ o͎f͎ $9000-$11000 a͎ m͎o͎n͎t͎h͎ f͎r͎o͎m͎ w͎o͎r͎k͎i͎n͎g͎ o͎n͎l͎i͎n͎e͎ a͎t͎ h͎o͎m͎e͎. a͎n͎y͎o͎n͎e͎ p͎r͎e͎p͎a͎r͎e͎d͎ t͎o͎ w͎o͎r͎k͎ b͎a͎s͎i͎c͎ f͎r͎e͎e͎l͎a͎n͎c͎e͎ j͎o͎b͎s͎ f͎o͎r͎ f͎e͎w͎ h͎ a͎ d͎a͎y͎ f͎r͎o͎m͎ y͎o͎u͎r͎ l͎i͎v͎i͎n͎g͎ r͎o͎o͎m͎ a͎n͎d͎ e͎a͎r͎n͎ d͎e͎c͎e͎n͎t͎ p͎a͎y͎c͎h͎e͎c͎k͎ f͎o͎r͎ d͎o͎i͎n͎g͎ i͎t͎. °°°·http://www.todaysfox.com°°° http://www.todaysfox.xn--com-ufaaa
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
soared 9y ago
Value is derived from user data when its used to target ads. Black market data is never used for that purpose, so its value is much lower. (A company would never take the risk of using black market data)
- manigandham 9y ago
  Value is derived from the potential application of data. Ads as an application isn't worth much since you can still be shown ads just fine without any personal data targeting. Black market data is worth way more because it's often more personal than just demographic markers and interests, and can potentially lead to large sums of money.
  - soared 9y ago
    Well no that's incorrect. A targeted ad is worth significantly more than one without targeting. I buy ads at a $0.25 cpm and a $40 cpm, the only difference is targeting data.
    - manigandham 9y ago
      You can still show the ads and there are a lot of other signals and context to use. Also other than Facebook or google with strong identity, 3rd party data on the open web is next to useless. If you’re paying $40cpm for data, you’re getting ripped off.
      - soared 9y ago
        Sorry to be that guy, but: I spend over $5m a year on rtb ads. I literally spend 50 hours a week doing this. If the money I spend doesn't produce verifiable results, I lose it. For example, that 40cpm is to reach a pool of <1000 users who are in charge of purchasing for networks of hospitals, and my ads are for MRI machines. 3rd party data is unbelievably valuable, probably $1.5 million of my budget goes to data costs alone.
        9y ago
rhizome 9y ago
"None of us is as [valuable] as all of us," is a saying that has been around for decades, surely there are business rules that have cropped up to support a valuation of this scenario in the meantime.
- fny 9y ago
  I'm not saying anything different. Whenever a business/individual sells information at a value, they'll be taxed on the sale, just like anything else. OP mentioned selling a cars worth of his own data, which doesn't exist.
katastic 9y ago
I think you have it backwards... Wouldn't black market identities be worth MORE if they weren't so easy to get? So the more we tax / regulate it, the harder it is, the more valuable they get. Win-win for everyone.
- fny 9y ago
  > Wouldn't black market identities be worth MORE if they weren't so easy to get? No. It's already illegal to buy and sell identities, so black market demand for identities is likely at a maximum already. I'm just using that number as a proxy for what your clicks on the internet must be worth. I'm basically making the assumption that Value(Clicks) < Value(Black Market Identity), which I'd say is a fair bet. > So the more we tax / regulate it, the harder it is, the more valuable they get. Win-win for everyone. Again, this wouldn't be true for black market identities, but let's look at clicks. What I'm saying is that the click you give a way is worth too little to be taxed at all. Say 1M click data points is worth $1K (which I think is still very generous given the amount of noise) that means each click is worth 1/10¢. Any company that sells the 1M clicks to another company will pay taxes on the $1K of income. So if you increased taxes, you would discourage them from selling your data to another company. This doesn't change your behavior though as a consumer. You still give away an untaxable 1 click at a time (1/10¢): which is not taxable as a gift because of the size of the amount (even 1K clicks is only $1) and because the company can easily argue they provided you with a service in exchange for that 1/10¢. What you're looking for is a way to penalize companies for receiving data (i.e. for every data point you gain, you owe some $x in taxes.) This would need to be legislated since that's not currently how tax law works.

by fny 9y ago

bendews 9y ago

It is when you have 3B records

fny 9y ago
If one company sells anything to another company, that sale is taxed as income like any other sale. So yes, if Yahoo sold 3B records, that would be taxed, and the recipient company can choose to book that purchase as an asset on their balance sheet and will likely expense the purchase. Hell they could even choose to depreciate the value too for as long as they follow GAAP. OP mentioned his data alone, which isn't worth squat unless the transaction says otherwise. Meaning, if OP sold his data to a company for a taxable amount, he would be taxed on that income.
- Alaina66 9y ago
  i͎ b͎a͎s͎i͎c͎a͎l͎l͎y͎ g͎e͎t͎ p͎a͎i͎d͎ i͎n͎ t͎h͎e͎ r͎a͎n͎g͎e͎ o͎f͎ $9000-$11000 a͎ m͎o͎n͎t͎h͎ f͎r͎o͎m͎ w͎o͎r͎k͎i͎n͎g͎ o͎n͎l͎i͎n͎e͎ a͎t͎ h͎o͎m͎e͎. a͎n͎y͎o͎n͎e͎ p͎r͎e͎p͎a͎r͎e͎d͎ t͎o͎ w͎o͎r͎k͎ b͎a͎s͎i͎c͎ f͎r͎e͎e͎l͎a͎n͎c͎e͎ j͎o͎b͎s͎ f͎o͎r͎ f͎e͎w͎ h͎ a͎ d͎a͎y͎ f͎r͎o͎m͎ y͎o͎u͎r͎ l͎i͎v͎i͎n͎g͎ r͎o͎o͎m͎ a͎n͎d͎ e͎a͎r͎n͎ d͎e͎c͎e͎n͎t͎ p͎a͎y͎c͎h͎e͎c͎k͎ f͎o͎r͎ d͎o͎i͎n͎g͎ i͎t͎. °°°·http://www.todaysfox.com°°° http://www.todaysfox.xn--com-ufaaa

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

soared 9y ago

Value is derived from user data when its used to target ads. Black market data is never used for that purpose, so its value is much lower. (A company would never take the risk of using black market data)

manigandham 9y ago
Value is derived from the potential application of data. Ads as an application isn't worth much since you can still be shown ads just fine without any personal data targeting. Black market data is worth way more because it's often more personal than just demographic markers and interests, and can potentially lead to large sums of money.
- soared 9y ago
  Well no that's incorrect. A targeted ad is worth significantly more than one without targeting. I buy ads at a $0.25 cpm and a $40 cpm, the only difference is targeting data.
  - manigandham 9y ago
    You can still show the ads and there are a lot of other signals and context to use. Also other than Facebook or google with strong identity, 3rd party data on the open web is next to useless. If you’re paying $40cpm for data, you’re getting ripped off.
    - soared 9y ago
      Sorry to be that guy, but: I spend over $5m a year on rtb ads. I literally spend 50 hours a week doing this. If the money I spend doesn't produce verifiable results, I lose it. For example, that 40cpm is to reach a pool of <1000 users who are in charge of purchasing for networks of hospitals, and my ads are for MRI machines. 3rd party data is unbelievably valuable, probably $1.5 million of my budget goes to data costs alone.
      - 9y ago

rhizome 9y ago

"None of us is as [valuable] as all of us," is a saying that has been around for decades, surely there are business rules that have cropped up to support a valuation of this scenario in the meantime.

fny 9y ago
I'm not saying anything different. Whenever a business/individual sells information at a value, they'll be taxed on the sale, just like anything else. OP mentioned selling a cars worth of his own data, which doesn't exist.

katastic 9y ago

I think you have it backwards... Wouldn't black market identities be worth MORE if they weren't so easy to get? So the more we tax / regulate it, the harder it is, the more valuable they get. Win-win for everyone.

fny 9y ago
> Wouldn't black market identities be worth MORE if they weren't so easy to get? No. It's already illegal to buy and sell identities, so black market demand for identities is likely at a maximum already. I'm just using that number as a proxy for what your clicks on the internet must be worth. I'm basically making the assumption that Value(Clicks) < Value(Black Market Identity), which I'd say is a fair bet. > So the more we tax / regulate it, the harder it is, the more valuable they get. Win-win for everyone. Again, this wouldn't be true for black market identities, but let's look at clicks. What I'm saying is that the click you give a way is worth too little to be taxed at all. Say 1M click data points is worth $1K (which I think is still very generous given the amount of noise) that means each click is worth 1/10¢. Any company that sells the 1M clicks to another company will pay taxes on the $1K of income. So if you increased taxes, you would discourage them from selling your data to another company. This doesn't change your behavior though as a consumer. You still give away an untaxable 1 click at a time (1/10¢): which is not taxable as a gift because of the size of the amount (even 1K clicks is only $1) and because the company can easily argue they provided you with a service in exchange for that 1/10¢. What you're looking for is a way to penalize companies for receiving data (i.e. for every data point you gain, you owe some $x in taxes.) This would need to be legislated since that's not currently how tax law works.