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"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." We're tired of obsessing about race. We're tired of having accusations of racism, sexism, whatever-the-next-trendy-ism crammed down our throats at every opportunity. The reality is, urban black (and to a similar extent latino) CULTURE does not value education. Until that changes, do not expect to see highly educated and skilled blacks and latinos bounding through the hiring process. Just ask the asians about minority discrimination - they outperform everyone and are openly penalized for it. CONTENT OF CHARACTER. NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT SKIN COLOR. Go ahead and delete this comment, it's not going to change reality.

infiniteseeker 9y ago
Exactly. I have tons of Indian , other south Asian and east Asian heritage colleagues. Weird how theres no racism in this case.
- Karrot_Kream 9y ago
  '“There have been no changes for Asians or any other minority over time – men or women,” said Buck Gee, the study’s co-author and an executive adviser to Ascend, a US-based research group that advocates for Asian representation in businesses.' The claim is that, despite increasingly visible/vocal attempts at diversity, the industry does not reflect this. We've noticed a regression in black/Latino hiring and stagnancy for Asians. This implies that there is racism at work.
  - outand_up 9y ago
    No I don't believe it does. Causation != correlation. Just because a company goes on a PR campaign to openly discriminate based on race and attempt to hire minorities, does not mean more minorities will present themselves in the application pools. Again, until urban minority cultures begin to value education - nothing will change.
  - talad 9y ago
    Or it means any number of things such as the visible/vocal attempts at diversity failing to achieve their stated goals, the difficulty in attracting appropriately skilled developers from what is already a much smaller subset of the population etc. The angle of the study, if not the actual result, is already a foregone conclusion considering it's from an Affirmative Action-lobbying organization but even then some of the complaints are a bit nonsensical (hard to know if it should be chalked down to the Guardian or the actual report though), for instance that it's twice as likely to find white men and women as CEOs than asian ones, when the amount of whites are fourteen times the one of the asian population in the US.
  - Crespyl 9y ago
    > This implies that there is racism at work Does it though? Or does it suggest that the problem is not (just) racism, and that all the noise is making it harder to identify and solve the root problems?
geofft 9y ago
> The reality is, urban black (and to a similar extent latino) CULTURE does not value education. I have no interest in deleting your comment, but I am interested in rational debate. 1. What is your evidence for this? 2. Why would this explain a decline in representation? Do you believe that "urban black" culture has started devaluing education? 3. If, indeed, you're tired of thinking about race, why is your analysis based on "urban black" culture? Why not urban culture in general? There are plenty of inner-city whites and Asians, no?
- outand_up 9y ago
  Sure, glad to have this conversation. 1. I don't think I need to provide evidence that black culture does not value education. Call me racist, whatever you want - but this is an obvious truth. 2. This is difficult to quantify, maybe it's gotten worse - the underlying issue remains. 3. I specify "urban" culture because I believe the issue of representation is due almost entirely to culture and socioeconomics. You will not see black kids from double-educated-parent households from the suburbs struggling in academia or the workforce. Totally agree, race is non-issue. Could be white, asian, latino, whatever.
  - geofft 9y ago
    > 1. I don't think I need to provide evidence that black culture does not value education. Call me racist, whatever you want - but this is an obvious truth. I don't think calling you racist will be productive. But I am perfectly happy to call you uninterested in reasoned debate if you cannot produce even the slightest shred at evidence here. > 2. This is difficult to quantify, maybe it's gotten worse - the underlying issue remains. So you have no reason why representation would worsen other than "maybe." > You will not see black kids from double-educated-parent households from the suburbs struggling in academia or the workforce. Again, can you provide evidence here? One form of evidence is looking at the number of students from such households who go to college for CS, and what the proportions are by race of people who get hired and promoted in tech. If those proportions are on par with the number who graduate college, then you'll have demonstrated your claim.
tabeth 9y ago
The real question is why you felt the need to post this twice. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15395049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15395049
- outand_up 9y ago
  because it was shadowbanned despite being profusely upvoted
k4shm1r 9y ago
>We're tired of having accusations of racism Well, maybe if you weren't an actual racist you wouldn't get accused of being a racist every time. >The reality is, urban black (and to a similar extent latino) CULTURE does not value education. What do you know about "latino culture". In fact what the fuck does that even mean? Why are you grouping people from an entire continent under an umbrella? What do you think an Argentinian has to do with a Mexican? Do you think we have the same culture? > Until that changes, do not expect to see highly educated and skilled blacks and latinos bounding through the hiring process. Well except we do, and we are often so competitive that puny white supremacists like you feel threatened by our very existence, and start shouting "dey tuk our jerbs!" the moment they feel there are "too many" of us.
- outand_up 9y ago
  This is absurd. First call me a racist. Then conflate my comments about anti-intellectualism in urban cultures with all latinos. Then call me a white supremacist. Do you have an argument? You are the problem, dude.
discodave 9y ago
I imagine, that as tired of you are hearing about it, it is worse for the people who are subject to discrimination every day. Like the assertions that you just made about how certain races value education. So, basically, stop being such a snowflake. Also, next time, try not to directly contradict yourself in the same comment: > urban black CULTURE does not value education > CONTENT OF CHARACTER. NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT SKIN COLOR Pick one, but you don't get both.
BoorishBears 9y ago
""
- outand_up 9y ago
  That's exactly what I meant, you can see me explain in other comments. Assume good intent in people, come on guys. Since we're talking about minorities, I felt the need to specify "urban black" culture, but I agree. "Urban <any race>" culture is suffering from anti-intellectualism.
  - BoorishBears 9y ago
    What good intent is there in saying something so crass? Saying "Urban <one or two races>" turns what's a non-race specific issue into a racial comment, good intent or not.
- shadowbanned2 9y ago
  Black people, living in a predominately black neighborhood, surrounded mostly by blacks do indeed have an awful culture that perpetuates ignorance and calls speaking without ebonics, "talking white". It's cool you use big fancy words like "socioeconomic issue" to describe what is, in essence, black people behaving like black people! There are no evil white men pulling their strings forcing them to be ignorant and not get educated, they just don't want to be a part of modern society and would rather rely on government subsidies than getting out and getting a real job or career. If the majority of black people everywhere they go create ghettos and create this shitty "culture", then its the black peoples fault themselves, not some magic boogeyman "culture" that liberals are so inclined to throw around.
  - BoorishBears 9y ago
    I'm a black person, so I'm not going to engage with someone who says things like "black people behaving like black people!"
tomjen3 9y ago
Sadly many people give too many fucks about skin color. However, I agree with you. Skin color is but one variable - you could just as easily discriminate on hair color, or height. Lets just all agree that we are members of the human race.
JohnFro 9y ago
You're asking for quite a lot. Black America doesn't value education because the culture was designed to devalue education. I know no one on this site wants to talk about it, but a culture was created for Black America during slavery. Think about what was valuable in slaves. Physical Prowess (Stronger slaves means more work can be completed in the fields), and talent (slaves that can keep other slaves entertained mean they're not planning a revolt). Keeping the slave master entertained by singing and dancing also brought perks for the slaves that are able to do so. Being able to produce more value in the field also brought perks. Now think about the industries Black Americans dominate today... Athletics and Entertainment. Being caught reading would get you killed, being caught writing would get you killed. Being white and teaching a black person to read or write could also get you killed. African immigrants have no problem taking advantage of the education provided in america, so this isn't a genetic issue. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-u-s- https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-... The problem is the culture. Simply saying fix the culture when it's the result of a process that took hundreds of years to create will not solve the issue.
- outand_up 9y ago
  I certainly don't believe it's asking for a lot. It's racist to assert that minorities don't have any self control. Every race in the world has been enslaved at some point. We are just animals, transcend this. Let's start here: is it too much of a stretch to say that I think it's ridiculous that the most commonly understood career path for black youth is drug dealer -> gangster rapper, or athlete? These kids deserve better role models, for one. This is an obvious truth and should not require citation.
- SOCIETYROFL 9y ago
  This recent thinking that almost every problem or every deficiency with group(s) of humans is to be blamed on whites, it is absolute nonsense. The real problem is IQ. Repeat that acronym with me: I, Q. You cannot just import an Africa tribesman, put him into a lab coat and hope for the best; there exists differences. Massive differences. In fact if all races were "equal" as we say there are then there would not even be a discussion to have, since the transition would be seamless.
root_axis 9y ago
Black people don't have a homogenous culture, don't be surprised by the accusations of racism when you literally castigate a culture based on race.
sctb 9y ago
This comment violates the guidelines. You've made highly provocative and controversial claims without support, which is also called flamebait. This doesn't bring us any closer to actual learning or insight. That's what this site is for. > Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (The guidelines also specifically ask you not to use uppercase for emphasis, but that's small potatoes at the moment)

infiniteseeker 9y ago

Exactly. I have tons of Indian , other south Asian and east Asian heritage colleagues. Weird how theres no racism in this case.

Karrot_Kream 9y ago
'“There have been no changes for Asians or any other minority over time – men or women,” said Buck Gee, the study’s co-author and an executive adviser to Ascend, a US-based research group that advocates for Asian representation in businesses.' The claim is that, despite increasingly visible/vocal attempts at diversity, the industry does not reflect this. We've noticed a regression in black/Latino hiring and stagnancy for Asians. This implies that there is racism at work.
- outand_up 9y ago
  No I don't believe it does. Causation != correlation. Just because a company goes on a PR campaign to openly discriminate based on race and attempt to hire minorities, does not mean more minorities will present themselves in the application pools. Again, until urban minority cultures begin to value education - nothing will change.
- talad 9y ago
  Or it means any number of things such as the visible/vocal attempts at diversity failing to achieve their stated goals, the difficulty in attracting appropriately skilled developers from what is already a much smaller subset of the population etc. The angle of the study, if not the actual result, is already a foregone conclusion considering it's from an Affirmative Action-lobbying organization but even then some of the complaints are a bit nonsensical (hard to know if it should be chalked down to the Guardian or the actual report though), for instance that it's twice as likely to find white men and women as CEOs than asian ones, when the amount of whites are fourteen times the one of the asian population in the US.
- Crespyl 9y ago
  > This implies that there is racism at work Does it though? Or does it suggest that the problem is not (just) racism, and that all the noise is making it harder to identify and solve the root problems?

geofft 9y ago

> The reality is, urban black (and to a similar extent latino) CULTURE does not value education. I have no interest in deleting your comment, but I am interested in rational debate. 1. What is your evidence for this? 2. Why would this explain a decline in representation? Do you believe that "urban black" culture has started devaluing education? 3. If, indeed, you're tired of thinking about race, why is your analysis based on "urban black" culture? Why not urban culture in general? There are plenty of inner-city whites and Asians, no?

outand_up 9y ago
Sure, glad to have this conversation. 1. I don't think I need to provide evidence that black culture does not value education. Call me racist, whatever you want - but this is an obvious truth. 2. This is difficult to quantify, maybe it's gotten worse - the underlying issue remains. 3. I specify "urban" culture because I believe the issue of representation is due almost entirely to culture and socioeconomics. You will not see black kids from double-educated-parent households from the suburbs struggling in academia or the workforce. Totally agree, race is non-issue. Could be white, asian, latino, whatever.
- geofft 9y ago
  > 1. I don't think I need to provide evidence that black culture does not value education. Call me racist, whatever you want - but this is an obvious truth. I don't think calling you racist will be productive. But I am perfectly happy to call you uninterested in reasoned debate if you cannot produce even the slightest shred at evidence here. > 2. This is difficult to quantify, maybe it's gotten worse - the underlying issue remains. So you have no reason why representation would worsen other than "maybe." > You will not see black kids from double-educated-parent households from the suburbs struggling in academia or the workforce. Again, can you provide evidence here? One form of evidence is looking at the number of students from such households who go to college for CS, and what the proportions are by race of people who get hired and promoted in tech. If those proportions are on par with the number who graduate college, then you'll have demonstrated your claim.

tabeth 9y ago

The real question is why you felt the need to post this twice. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15395049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15395049

outand_up 9y ago
because it was shadowbanned despite being profusely upvoted

k4shm1r 9y ago

>We're tired of having accusations of racism Well, maybe if you weren't an actual racist you wouldn't get accused of being a racist every time. >The reality is, urban black (and to a similar extent latino) CULTURE does not value education. What do you know about "latino culture". In fact what the fuck does that even mean? Why are you grouping people from an entire continent under an umbrella? What do you think an Argentinian has to do with a Mexican? Do you think we have the same culture? > Until that changes, do not expect to see highly educated and skilled blacks and latinos bounding through the hiring process. Well except we do, and we are often so competitive that puny white supremacists like you feel threatened by our very existence, and start shouting "dey tuk our jerbs!" the moment they feel there are "too many" of us.

outand_up 9y ago
This is absurd. First call me a racist. Then conflate my comments about anti-intellectualism in urban cultures with all latinos. Then call me a white supremacist. Do you have an argument? You are the problem, dude.

discodave 9y ago

I imagine, that as tired of you are hearing about it, it is worse for the people who are subject to discrimination every day. Like the assertions that you just made about how certain races value education. So, basically, stop being such a snowflake. Also, next time, try not to directly contradict yourself in the same comment: > urban black CULTURE does not value education > CONTENT OF CHARACTER. NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT SKIN COLOR Pick one, but you don't get both.

BoorishBears 9y ago

outand_up 9y ago
That's exactly what I meant, you can see me explain in other comments. Assume good intent in people, come on guys. Since we're talking about minorities, I felt the need to specify "urban black" culture, but I agree. "Urban <any race>" culture is suffering from anti-intellectualism.
- BoorishBears 9y ago
  What good intent is there in saying something so crass? Saying "Urban <one or two races>" turns what's a non-race specific issue into a racial comment, good intent or not.
shadowbanned2 9y ago
Black people, living in a predominately black neighborhood, surrounded mostly by blacks do indeed have an awful culture that perpetuates ignorance and calls speaking without ebonics, "talking white". It's cool you use big fancy words like "socioeconomic issue" to describe what is, in essence, black people behaving like black people! There are no evil white men pulling their strings forcing them to be ignorant and not get educated, they just don't want to be a part of modern society and would rather rely on government subsidies than getting out and getting a real job or career. If the majority of black people everywhere they go create ghettos and create this shitty "culture", then its the black peoples fault themselves, not some magic boogeyman "culture" that liberals are so inclined to throw around.
- BoorishBears 9y ago
  I'm a black person, so I'm not going to engage with someone who says things like "black people behaving like black people!"

tomjen3 9y ago

Sadly many people give too many fucks about skin color. However, I agree with you. Skin color is but one variable - you could just as easily discriminate on hair color, or height. Lets just all agree that we are members of the human race.

JohnFro 9y ago

You're asking for quite a lot. Black America doesn't value education because the culture was designed to devalue education. I know no one on this site wants to talk about it, but a culture was created for Black America during slavery. Think about what was valuable in slaves. Physical Prowess (Stronger slaves means more work can be completed in the fields), and talent (slaves that can keep other slaves entertained mean they're not planning a revolt). Keeping the slave master entertained by singing and dancing also brought perks for the slaves that are able to do so. Being able to produce more value in the field also brought perks. Now think about the industries Black Americans dominate today... Athletics and Entertainment. Being caught reading would get you killed, being caught writing would get you killed. Being white and teaching a black person to read or write could also get you killed. African immigrants have no problem taking advantage of the education provided in america, so this isn't a genetic issue. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-u-s- https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-... The problem is the culture. Simply saying fix the culture when it's the result of a process that took hundreds of years to create will not solve the issue.

outand_up 9y ago
I certainly don't believe it's asking for a lot. It's racist to assert that minorities don't have any self control. Every race in the world has been enslaved at some point. We are just animals, transcend this. Let's start here: is it too much of a stretch to say that I think it's ridiculous that the most commonly understood career path for black youth is drug dealer -> gangster rapper, or athlete? These kids deserve better role models, for one. This is an obvious truth and should not require citation.
SOCIETYROFL 9y ago
This recent thinking that almost every problem or every deficiency with group(s) of humans is to be blamed on whites, it is absolute nonsense. The real problem is IQ. Repeat that acronym with me: I, Q. You cannot just import an Africa tribesman, put him into a lab coat and hope for the best; there exists differences. Massive differences. In fact if all races were "equal" as we say there are then there would not even be a discussion to have, since the transition would be seamless.

root_axis 9y ago

Black people don't have a homogenous culture, don't be surprised by the accusations of racism when you literally castigate a culture based on race.

sctb 9y ago

This comment violates the guidelines. You've made highly provocative and controversial claims without support, which is also called flamebait. This doesn't bring us any closer to actual learning or insight. That's what this site is for. > Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (The guidelines also specifically ask you not to use uppercase for emphasis, but that's small potatoes at the moment)