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What are the health risks of vaping with non-nicotine-containing fluid? I thought that it was just atomized vegetable glycerin with a bit of flavoring, but I've

What are the health risks of vaping with non-nicotine-containing fluid? I thought that it was just atomized vegetable glycerin with a bit of flavoring, but I've not done much research into the matter.

eckza 9y ago
Personal anecdote: I was never a cigarette smoker, but I started vaping because I tried a friend's vape once and liked it. I am a pretty serious athlete. Vaping - whether it was 3mg or 0mg e-juice - fucked with my lungs pretty badly, and caused a noticeable drop in athletic performance. Also made me feel way less motivated to lift weights and train, which I chalked up to the instant gratification of nicotine. When I did lift weights and train, I always felt like I wasn't able to give 100%. I quit, but goddamn it was a pain in the ass to quit. It's not even the nicotine I miss, really, so much as it is the whole experience. The heat, the vapor, the flavor, the habit. Friends of mine that have switched from smoking cigarettes to vaping e-juice have reported an increase in cardiovascular capacity; but as a non-smoker that started vaping, I definitely noticed decreased performance.
- dsschnau 9y ago
  yeah, i definitely noticed that my lungs were better off vaping than smoking but they are certainly not 100% vaping
mastax 9y ago
The current concern is metal nanoparticles coming off of the heating coils.
- schedule1 9y ago
  I wonder about this every time I replace a coil that is toasted. There are several types of coils now (Ni, kanthal, stainless) - it'd be nice to know more about the degradation of the metals and its effects for sure.
  - hwillis 9y ago
    Kanthal is basically stainless steel with more chromium and a slight amount of aluminum. Which one is better depends heavily on the exact alloys and how they are assembled, unfortunately. Kanthal requires a very specific heating profile after installation to develop its protective coating. Without that its basically just weird, fancy stainless steel. It becomes very brittle after the heat treat which causes gradual degradation especially during repeated, fast heating cycles. I would not use it. I would also avoid low-alloy stainless like 400 series. That's the cheapest kind and at elevated temperature it oxidizes and corrodes. 300 series would be better, 500 would be best. Even within those two series though, some alloys will be much better than others. Nickel... I don't know. It's very sensitive to composition and some can leach into liquid and others don't. It's more toxic than iron or chromium, but pretty resistant to temperature. Kind of a wash.
mistercow 9y ago
Heating glycerin can produce acrolein and formaldehyde, and this has been reported in ecigs in several studies. The amounts are minuscule compared to cigarettes and don't seem to show up in second-hand vapor, but it's plausible that this could cause some long term harm. This is why I really wish someone would sell an ultrasonic vape, which the original patent included. That should be far safer, but so far, nobody seems to be making them.
hwillis 9y ago
It's quite hot air in your lungs, and isn't gonna do anything good. Not hot enough to scald you but the interface in alveoli is very sensitive to changes in consistency, thickness and makeup and it'll change how well you can absorb oxygen. Plus it's irritating which can cause inflammation, making it harder to breathe. Not something you'd notice normally but all of that will lower your lung capacity for quite a while. At super low power it's pretty much totally safe and the impact on breathing is temporary[1]. At ~>18 watts formaldehyde starts to become a possible irritant, and there are also lots of other carbonyls. One of the really fun ones in the graph in [1] is acrolein- it's still at extremely low levels but that shit is not anything you want in your body. It's generated in small amounts any time anything fatty is burned, but absorbing it through your lungs daily is a totally different thing. Vaping at low power (<20 watts) is pretty safe, but my girlfriends vape goes up to 200 and she uses it constantly at 85 or so. There are definitely significant amounts of chemicals besides glycerine and propylene glycol. [1]: https://monq.com/vg/ https://monq.com/vg/

eckza 9y ago

Personal anecdote: I was never a cigarette smoker, but I started vaping because I tried a friend's vape once and liked it. I am a pretty serious athlete. Vaping - whether it was 3mg or 0mg e-juice - fucked with my lungs pretty badly, and caused a noticeable drop in athletic performance. Also made me feel way less motivated to lift weights and train, which I chalked up to the instant gratification of nicotine. When I did lift weights and train, I always felt like I wasn't able to give 100%. I quit, but goddamn it was a pain in the ass to quit. It's not even the nicotine I miss, really, so much as it is the whole experience. The heat, the vapor, the flavor, the habit. Friends of mine that have switched from smoking cigarettes to vaping e-juice have reported an increase in cardiovascular capacity; but as a non-smoker that started vaping, I definitely noticed decreased performance.

dsschnau 9y ago
yeah, i definitely noticed that my lungs were better off vaping than smoking but they are certainly not 100% vaping

mastax 9y ago

The current concern is metal nanoparticles coming off of the heating coils.

schedule1 9y ago
I wonder about this every time I replace a coil that is toasted. There are several types of coils now (Ni, kanthal, stainless) - it'd be nice to know more about the degradation of the metals and its effects for sure.
- hwillis 9y ago
  Kanthal is basically stainless steel with more chromium and a slight amount of aluminum. Which one is better depends heavily on the exact alloys and how they are assembled, unfortunately. Kanthal requires a very specific heating profile after installation to develop its protective coating. Without that its basically just weird, fancy stainless steel. It becomes very brittle after the heat treat which causes gradual degradation especially during repeated, fast heating cycles. I would not use it. I would also avoid low-alloy stainless like 400 series. That's the cheapest kind and at elevated temperature it oxidizes and corrodes. 300 series would be better, 500 would be best. Even within those two series though, some alloys will be much better than others. Nickel... I don't know. It's very sensitive to composition and some can leach into liquid and others don't. It's more toxic than iron or chromium, but pretty resistant to temperature. Kind of a wash.

mistercow 9y ago

Heating glycerin can produce acrolein and formaldehyde, and this has been reported in ecigs in several studies. The amounts are minuscule compared to cigarettes and don't seem to show up in second-hand vapor, but it's plausible that this could cause some long term harm. This is why I really wish someone would sell an ultrasonic vape, which the original patent included. That should be far safer, but so far, nobody seems to be making them.

hwillis 9y ago

It's quite hot air in your lungs, and isn't gonna do anything good. Not hot enough to scald you but the interface in alveoli is very sensitive to changes in consistency, thickness and makeup and it'll change how well you can absorb oxygen. Plus it's irritating which can cause inflammation, making it harder to breathe. Not something you'd notice normally but all of that will lower your lung capacity for quite a while. At super low power it's pretty much totally safe and the impact on breathing is temporary[1]. At ~>18 watts formaldehyde starts to become a possible irritant, and there are also lots of other carbonyls. One of the really fun ones in the graph in [1] is acrolein- it's still at extremely low levels but that shit is not anything you want in your body. It's generated in small amounts any time anything fatty is burned, but absorbing it through your lungs daily is a totally different thing. Vaping at low power (<20 watts) is pretty safe, but my girlfriends vape goes up to 200 and she uses it constantly at 85 or so. There are definitely significant amounts of chemicals besides glycerine and propylene glycol. [1]: https://monq.com/vg/ https://monq.com/vg/