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Chilling read. I have never heard of this but it's making me much more eager to have children. Does anyone know why the daughter was powerless, or not their gu

by gt_ 9y ago

Chilling read. I have never heard of this but it's making me much more eager to have children. Does anyone know why the daughter was powerless, or not their guardian herself? This felt like a hole in the narrative.

EGreg 9y ago
"It often took several days for relatives to realize what had happened. When they tried to contest the guardianship or become guardians themselves, they were dismissed as unsuitable, and disparaged in court records as being neglectful, or as drug addicts, gamblers, and exploiters. (Belshe was described by Parks as a “reported addict” who “has no contact with the proposed ward,” an allegation that Belshe didn’t see until it was too late to challenge.) Family who lived out of state were disqualified from serving as guardians, because the law prohibited the appointment of anyone who didn’t live in Nevada. Once the court approved the guardianship, the wards were often removed from their homes, which were eventually sold. Terry Williams, whose father’s estate was taken over by strangers even though he’d named her the executor of his will, has spent years combing through guardianship, probate, and real-estate records in Clark County. “I kept researching, because I was so fascinated that these people could literally take over the lives and assets of people under color of law, in less than ten minutes, and nobody was asking questions,” she told me. “These people spent their lives accumulating wealth and, in a blink of an eye, it was someone else’s." "The opinions of wards were also disregarded. In 2010, Guadalupe Olvera, a ninety-year-old veteran of the Second World War, repeatedly asked that his daughter and not Shafer be appointed his guardian. “The ward is not to go to court,” Shafer instructed his assistants. When Olvera was finally permitted to attend a hearing, nearly a year after becoming a ward, he expressed his desire to live with his daughter in California, rather than under Shafer’s care. “Why is everybody against that?” he asked Norheim. “I don’t need that man.” Although Nevada’s guardianship law requires that courts favor relatives over professionals, Norheim continued the guardianship, saying, “The priority ship sailed.” When Olvera’s daughter eventually defied the court’s orders and took her father to live at her seaside home in Northern California, Norheim’s supervisor, Judge Charles Hoskin, issued an arrest warrant for her “immediate arrest and incarceration” without bail. The warrant was for contempt of court, but Norheim said at least five times from the bench that she had “kidnapped” Olvera. At a hearing, Norheim acknowledged that he wasn’t able to send an officer across state lines to arrest the daughter. Shafer said, “Maybe I can.”"
- gt_ 9y ago
  This is approximately an equivalent of "because they can". There must be a deeper explanation, or a history of the law which can give us a better understanding.
  - Retric 9y ago
    The law was written by the people who use it to exploit the elderly. This is just another case of endemic US corruption that sits behind a polite facade.
    - justin66 9y ago
      > This is just another case of endemic US corruption that sits behind a polite facade. Everything that happened in that case was a function of state, not federal, law.
      - Retric 9y ago
        US government is in no way limited to the federal government. State and local governments tend to be more corrupt not less. Gerrymandering + loss of local news coverage = incredible levels of corruption get baked into the system.
        justin66 9y ago
        > State and local governments tend to be more corrupt not less. That's true, but the point is that a retiree can choose where they retire to within the United States. Informing oneself about the legal risks associated with guardianship abuse in a given jurisdiction seems every bit as worthwhile as a state's tax laws or weather, topics which retirees certainly tend to take an interest in. > Gerrymandering + loss of local news coverage = incredible levels of corruption get baked into the system. Dammit, we've only got an inch of topsoil left!
        lozenge 9y ago
gervase 9y ago
This is the most terrifying part! What would prevent some calculating third party from doing this to my parents? Is it solely down to whether or not the children have the ability to pay costly legal bills? I dearly, dearly hope that there was something I missed, and that it isn't just a case of bureaucratic maneuvering to deprive that couple of everything they owned.
- EGreg 9y ago
  Only one thing: they should not live in such a terrible jurisdiction!
  - gt_ 9y ago
    I guess so. Hmm... well I sure hope we get a more developed awareness of the issue so we can plan accordingly for ourselves.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    Who's writing the laws you have to not get caught not following is a highly underrated contributor/detractor to one's quality of life.
    - rocqua 9y ago
      Its not a matter of the laws, its a matter of who is making the rulings. In this case, the issue with the jurisdiction was Jon Norheim, the Clark County guardianship commissioner. He seemed to rubber stamp whatever the predatory guardians put before him.
- reverend_gonzo 9y ago
  I think there's a couple preventative measures. First, don't go into things like nursing homes, elderly living communities, etc. Those are prime targets. Second, if you have wealth, give it to someone you trust, or put it into a trust. If you don't have wealth, well, there's not much for them to try to take from you.
- soundwave106 9y ago
mabub24 9y ago
It seems like they were able to take "the relatives are just after the money" argument to an absurd level where any form of control over the estate was simply not possible for family members or relatives.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

by gt_ 9y ago

EGreg 9y ago

"It often took several days for relatives to realize what had happened. When they tried to contest the guardianship or become guardians themselves, they were dismissed as unsuitable, and disparaged in court records as being neglectful, or as drug addicts, gamblers, and exploiters. (Belshe was described by Parks as a “reported addict” who “has no contact with the proposed ward,” an allegation that Belshe didn’t see until it was too late to challenge.) Family who lived out of state were disqualified from serving as guardians, because the law prohibited the appointment of anyone who didn’t live in Nevada. Once the court approved the guardianship, the wards were often removed from their homes, which were eventually sold. Terry Williams, whose father’s estate was taken over by strangers even though he’d named her the executor of his will, has spent years combing through guardianship, probate, and real-estate records in Clark County. “I kept researching, because I was so fascinated that these people could literally take over the lives and assets of people under color of law, in less than ten minutes, and nobody was asking questions,” she told me. “These people spent their lives accumulating wealth and, in a blink of an eye, it was someone else’s." "The opinions of wards were also disregarded. In 2010, Guadalupe Olvera, a ninety-year-old veteran of the Second World War, repeatedly asked that his daughter and not Shafer be appointed his guardian. “The ward is not to go to court,” Shafer instructed his assistants. When Olvera was finally permitted to attend a hearing, nearly a year after becoming a ward, he expressed his desire to live with his daughter in California, rather than under Shafer’s care. “Why is everybody against that?” he asked Norheim. “I don’t need that man.” Although Nevada’s guardianship law requires that courts favor relatives over professionals, Norheim continued the guardianship, saying, “The priority ship sailed.” When Olvera’s daughter eventually defied the court’s orders and took her father to live at her seaside home in Northern California, Norheim’s supervisor, Judge Charles Hoskin, issued an arrest warrant for her “immediate arrest and incarceration” without bail. The warrant was for contempt of court, but Norheim said at least five times from the bench that she had “kidnapped” Olvera. At a hearing, Norheim acknowledged that he wasn’t able to send an officer across state lines to arrest the daughter. Shafer said, “Maybe I can.”"

gt_ 9y ago
This is approximately an equivalent of "because they can". There must be a deeper explanation, or a history of the law which can give us a better understanding.
- Retric 9y ago
  The law was written by the people who use it to exploit the elderly. This is just another case of endemic US corruption that sits behind a polite facade.
  - justin66 9y ago
    > This is just another case of endemic US corruption that sits behind a polite facade. Everything that happened in that case was a function of state, not federal, law.
    - Retric 9y ago
      US government is in no way limited to the federal government. State and local governments tend to be more corrupt not less. Gerrymandering + loss of local news coverage = incredible levels of corruption get baked into the system.
      - justin66 9y ago
        > State and local governments tend to be more corrupt not less. That's true, but the point is that a retiree can choose where they retire to within the United States. Informing oneself about the legal risks associated with guardianship abuse in a given jurisdiction seems every bit as worthwhile as a state's tax laws or weather, topics which retirees certainly tend to take an interest in. > Gerrymandering + loss of local news coverage = incredible levels of corruption get baked into the system. Dammit, we've only got an inch of topsoil left!
        lozenge 9y ago

gervase 9y ago

This is the most terrifying part! What would prevent some calculating third party from doing this to my parents? Is it solely down to whether or not the children have the ability to pay costly legal bills? I dearly, dearly hope that there was something I missed, and that it isn't just a case of bureaucratic maneuvering to deprive that couple of everything they owned.

EGreg 9y ago
Only one thing: they should not live in such a terrible jurisdiction!
- gt_ 9y ago
  I guess so. Hmm... well I sure hope we get a more developed awareness of the issue so we can plan accordingly for ourselves.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  Who's writing the laws you have to not get caught not following is a highly underrated contributor/detractor to one's quality of life.
  - rocqua 9y ago
    Its not a matter of the laws, its a matter of who is making the rulings. In this case, the issue with the jurisdiction was Jon Norheim, the Clark County guardianship commissioner. He seemed to rubber stamp whatever the predatory guardians put before him.
reverend_gonzo 9y ago
I think there's a couple preventative measures. First, don't go into things like nursing homes, elderly living communities, etc. Those are prime targets. Second, if you have wealth, give it to someone you trust, or put it into a trust. If you don't have wealth, well, there's not much for them to try to take from you.
soundwave106 9y ago

mabub24 9y ago

It seems like they were able to take "the relatives are just after the money" argument to an absurd level where any form of control over the estate was simply not possible for family members or relatives.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]