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You're discounting the argument that the fast lifestyle isn't a response to poverty, but a response to expectations of poverty. Environment as it affects someo

You're discounting the argument that the fast lifestyle isn't a response to poverty, but a response to expectations of poverty. Environment as it affects someone born into poverty without examples of persons who grow out of it, rather than a grad student(really a laughable argument that a grad student is 'poor' considering the value of their education.) or an immigrant to the nation, come to find opportunity...

yummyfajitas 16y ago
The theory that people respond to expected future "poverty" [1] rather than their current circumstances is certainly harder to falsify. But I definitely dispute the assertion that people living in poor regions lack examples of people who grew out of it. It's certainly not true in the poor neighborhoods I've lived in (and currently live in). There are plenty of people who stayed in school, kept their heads down and achieved a solidly middle class lifestyle. They often remain involved with the local community, typically the church and extended family. [1] I find it very difficult to use the term "poverty" to describe the bottom 10% of Americans, seeing as all their material needs are met and they consume more leisure than any other group.
willchang 16y ago
You can both be right: A fast lifestyle (1) is caused by expecting poverty and (2) causes poverty; but I think that Unseelie's (and the article's) point is the more significant one. In order to fight poverty, you have to give people a reason to change their expectations, without which it would be impossible to change their behavior.
lkjhgbvbhnjmk 16y ago
And it happens very quickly, the area I grew up was reasonably prosperous working class. Then the mines, steelworks and shipyards closed - 20 years later the majority of people growing up there are never going to have a proper job. If you see a lifetime on the dole there isn't much point in waiting until you are 30 to have kids for the sake of your 'career' at a supermarket checkout or call center.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

The theory that people respond to expected future "poverty" [1] rather than their current circumstances is certainly harder to falsify. But I definitely dispute the assertion that people living in poor regions lack examples of people who grew out of it. It's certainly not true in the poor neighborhoods I've lived in (and currently live in). There are plenty of people who stayed in school, kept their heads down and achieved a solidly middle class lifestyle. They often remain involved with the local community, typically the church and extended family. [1] I find it very difficult to use the term "poverty" to describe the bottom 10% of Americans, seeing as all their material needs are met and they consume more leisure than any other group.

willchang 16y ago

You can both be right: A fast lifestyle (1) is caused by expecting poverty and (2) causes poverty; but I think that Unseelie's (and the article's) point is the more significant one. In order to fight poverty, you have to give people a reason to change their expectations, without which it would be impossible to change their behavior.

lkjhgbvbhnjmk 16y ago

And it happens very quickly, the area I grew up was reasonably prosperous working class. Then the mines, steelworks and shipyards closed - 20 years later the majority of people growing up there are never going to have a proper job. If you see a lifetime on the dole there isn't much point in waiting until you are 30 to have kids for the sake of your 'career' at a supermarket checkout or call center.