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That was a good article. After coming to US for college I decided to help in a soup kitchen on Saturdays for a while. Well it was more of a breakfast pancake an

by rdtsc 9y ago

That was a good article. After coming to US for college I decided to help in a soup kitchen on Saturdays for a while. Well it was more of a breakfast pancake and coffee kitchen but same idea. It was eye opening how rampant mental disease is among the homeless. It seems addiction for many was a way to self-medicate and or just get away from the constant stress. One person I remember was a former community college professor and he would come regularly. He was calm, intelligent, well read, I forgot what he taught maybe history or literature. But then I also heard stories from people who were there longer to be careful, sometimes he would snap, see daemons and yell obscenities and so on. Some people were always cheery and happy, that was surprising. Most were quiet, looked down just took the food and left. Some would come for seconds and would tell us they have a family, a child or someone else waiting for it. Anyway the point was that it was a very good experience and taught me a few things. It definitely dispelled the often repeated myth how homeless people are just lazy and don't know how to manage their money and so on. It is a pretty complex problem. I understand that a while back there used to be state mental institutions. Those closed down and states just let the homeless out onto the streets. Why don't they open them again, was a budget issue? There was talk about YC trying out basic income, wonder if there is any space there having a non-for-profit startup which provides a shelter like that with psychological help and counseling. If it is worth disrupting coffee making, or nutrition or taxi monopolies, maybe it is also worth seeing if there is something to be done for those who need help the most.

blang 9y ago
State mental institutions were not without there problems, I'd recommend reading about Greystone Psychiatric Hospital in Morris county New Jersey.
PhasmaFelis 9y ago
State mental hospitals were widely alleged to be abusive and imprison people without cause. That was the justification for closing them. I don't know how bad things were, back in the day, but dumping thousands of mentally ill people on the streets with no further assistance doesn't seem to have helped.
KGIII 9y ago
A misconception, that you did not repeat but I'll mention it here as it applies, is that the State hospitals kicked the patients out to save money. This is not true. They kicked them out, and rightfully so, because the groups like the ACLU sued the hell out of them. The result was, basically, if it couldn't be proven that you were an immediate threat to yourself and other people, and you could vocalize your desire to be let out, they kicked you to the curb. Unfortunately, they got kicked to the curb with little support and few legal methods to demand they remain in treatment, as well as no funding to ensure they remained in treatment. Then, there was the rampant abuse that was going on in many of the facilities. The stories are full of atrocities and those came to light. Suffice to say, State run mental health facilities had/have some serious optics issues. As to your comment about their jovial nature... I think I can shed some light on that? However, I'm not an expert. I've had the chance to visit the war torn, impoverished, and even the combat zones. I have traveled a lot and paid for my education by serving in the military. Specifically, I spent eight years in the Marines. In that time, and as a civilian, I got to visit numerous places where death from starvation was a serious risk, where combat actions took the lives of civilians, and where every single central government agency had failed the citizens. In short, I've visited some places where the situation was pretty terrible. The striking thing is, in all those places, the children still mustered enough energy to laugh. In all those places, people still sang and danced. They still shared what they had. They still celebrated life. They still had weddings and celebrated love. They still wrote poetry, drew pictures, and told jokes. I guess there's a point where those things stop happening at all, at least for the truly destitute. The siege of Stalingrad is an example, though I guess even that wasn't entirely without people expressing joy. People still got married in the Nazi concentration camps. My conclusion is that we humans are pretty resilient. We are pretty tough. Even when faced with daily horrors that most can't even really imagine, we still can maintain some humanity. It seems that, no matter where I go, people are people. I've heard children's laughter immediately after people stopped firing their weapons. I don't know if they were laughing during it, but I know they laughed and played afterwards. So, even the homeless retain some humanity. They laugh, cry, sing, and enjoy art - just like the rest of us. Sorry, I'm no philosopher and I'm not a psychiatrist. So, I don't have a better way to describe it.
- rdtsc 9y ago
FooHentai 9y ago
>It was eye opening how rampant mental disease is among the homeless Something I read some time ago that really resonated and I'll (badly) paraphrase: We think that a person becomes homeless when they spend their last dollar and have none left for housing. But that's not true, and in fact they become homeless when they spend their last social connection and have none left for housing. Framing it this way, for me, it became easier to understand why, in societies without strong safety nets for those with mental illnesses, homelessness and mental illness is so strongly correlated. Such people run out of doorways they can darken, couches they can surf, and then have no further fallback option short of being out on the street. This isn't the only situation someone becomes homeless, of course. But it seems a common one.
- smelendez 9y ago
  This is an important point. And weak ties get broken, too. (I've never been homeless, but I've seen it happen to friends and acquaintances). Things like going to church, browsing in a bookstore or stopping by the corner bar to watch the game or Game of Thrones are doable when you're just poor: go light on the collection plate, read a book and put it back, or nurse a $1 Coke all night. Walking in with all your possessions and in need of a shower is a different story. You might have friends who will let you wash up and drop off your bag, but can you get to them easily? Are they going to be home? Maybe you should just head to your campsite early and save that favor for when you really need it.
logfromblammo 9y ago
It wasn't entirely a budgeting issue. The state-run institutions were essentially prisons for lunatics. The conditions were horrible and abuses were rampant. They were frequently sued for civil rights violations. So the institutions were shut down. The "patients/inmates" were then dumped on the streets. With no support, medication, or coping strategies, they inevitably moved into regular prisons, and are now "inmates/patients". They still experience many of the same conditions, but now they "deserve it", because they are criminals. US prisons are simply not set up for rehabilitation or treatment. There is no money to help you, but millions of dollars available to punish and contain you. The problem now, as it was then, is that the mentally ill were never in specialty hospitals to treat their specific needs. They were dropped into oubliettes, to be ignored and forgotten. If the institutions re-opened, it would be the same problem, because the same kinds of people would be running them and funding them.

by rdtsc 9y ago

blang 9y ago

State mental institutions were not without there problems, I'd recommend reading about Greystone Psychiatric Hospital in Morris county New Jersey.

PhasmaFelis 9y ago

State mental hospitals were widely alleged to be abusive and imprison people without cause. That was the justification for closing them. I don't know how bad things were, back in the day, but dumping thousands of mentally ill people on the streets with no further assistance doesn't seem to have helped.

KGIII 9y ago

A misconception, that you did not repeat but I'll mention it here as it applies, is that the State hospitals kicked the patients out to save money. This is not true. They kicked them out, and rightfully so, because the groups like the ACLU sued the hell out of them. The result was, basically, if it couldn't be proven that you were an immediate threat to yourself and other people, and you could vocalize your desire to be let out, they kicked you to the curb. Unfortunately, they got kicked to the curb with little support and few legal methods to demand they remain in treatment, as well as no funding to ensure they remained in treatment. Then, there was the rampant abuse that was going on in many of the facilities. The stories are full of atrocities and those came to light. Suffice to say, State run mental health facilities had/have some serious optics issues. As to your comment about their jovial nature... I think I can shed some light on that? However, I'm not an expert. I've had the chance to visit the war torn, impoverished, and even the combat zones. I have traveled a lot and paid for my education by serving in the military. Specifically, I spent eight years in the Marines. In that time, and as a civilian, I got to visit numerous places where death from starvation was a serious risk, where combat actions took the lives of civilians, and where every single central government agency had failed the citizens. In short, I've visited some places where the situation was pretty terrible. The striking thing is, in all those places, the children still mustered enough energy to laugh. In all those places, people still sang and danced. They still shared what they had. They still celebrated life. They still had weddings and celebrated love. They still wrote poetry, drew pictures, and told jokes. I guess there's a point where those things stop happening at all, at least for the truly destitute. The siege of Stalingrad is an example, though I guess even that wasn't entirely without people expressing joy. People still got married in the Nazi concentration camps. My conclusion is that we humans are pretty resilient. We are pretty tough. Even when faced with daily horrors that most can't even really imagine, we still can maintain some humanity. It seems that, no matter where I go, people are people. I've heard children's laughter immediately after people stopped firing their weapons. I don't know if they were laughing during it, but I know they laughed and played afterwards. So, even the homeless retain some humanity. They laugh, cry, sing, and enjoy art - just like the rest of us. Sorry, I'm no philosopher and I'm not a psychiatrist. So, I don't have a better way to describe it.

rdtsc 9y ago

FooHentai 9y ago

>It was eye opening how rampant mental disease is among the homeless Something I read some time ago that really resonated and I'll (badly) paraphrase: We think that a person becomes homeless when they spend their last dollar and have none left for housing. But that's not true, and in fact they become homeless when they spend their last social connection and have none left for housing. Framing it this way, for me, it became easier to understand why, in societies without strong safety nets for those with mental illnesses, homelessness and mental illness is so strongly correlated. Such people run out of doorways they can darken, couches they can surf, and then have no further fallback option short of being out on the street. This isn't the only situation someone becomes homeless, of course. But it seems a common one.

smelendez 9y ago
This is an important point. And weak ties get broken, too. (I've never been homeless, but I've seen it happen to friends and acquaintances). Things like going to church, browsing in a bookstore or stopping by the corner bar to watch the game or Game of Thrones are doable when you're just poor: go light on the collection plate, read a book and put it back, or nurse a $1 Coke all night. Walking in with all your possessions and in need of a shower is a different story. You might have friends who will let you wash up and drop off your bag, but can you get to them easily? Are they going to be home? Maybe you should just head to your campsite early and save that favor for when you really need it.

logfromblammo 9y ago

It wasn't entirely a budgeting issue. The state-run institutions were essentially prisons for lunatics. The conditions were horrible and abuses were rampant. They were frequently sued for civil rights violations. So the institutions were shut down. The "patients/inmates" were then dumped on the streets. With no support, medication, or coping strategies, they inevitably moved into regular prisons, and are now "inmates/patients". They still experience many of the same conditions, but now they "deserve it", because they are criminals. US prisons are simply not set up for rehabilitation or treatment. There is no money to help you, but millions of dollars available to punish and contain you. The problem now, as it was then, is that the mentally ill were never in specialty hospitals to treat their specific needs. They were dropped into oubliettes, to be ignored and forgotten. If the institutions re-opened, it would be the same problem, because the same kinds of people would be running them and funding them.