9 ms·
Maybe it has something to do with the word Territory as in a U.S. Territory. I still don't know what it is, but it implies that it is not a state, not a city. I
by foxfired 9y ago
Maybe it has something to do with the word Territory as in a U.S. Territory. I still don't know what it is, but it implies that it is not a state, not a city. If Hawaii can be half way around the world and be called a state, why can't we do the same for Puerto Rico?
- booleandilemma 9y agoI don’t think PR wants to be a state yet.
- weirdstuff 9y agoAnd they don't want to remain under their current status, either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statehood_movement_in_Puerto_Rico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statehood_movement_in_Puerto_R...
- craftyguy 9y ago> The fifth referendum was held on June 11, 2017. 97% percent voted for statehood, though there was only 23% voter turnout.[1] http://thehill.com/homenews/news/337347-puerto-rico-votes-in-favor-of-statehood http://thehill.com/homenews/news/337347-puerto-rico-votes-in...
- ocb 9y agoThis is extremely misleading. The pro-status quo party boycotted the referendum. I'm relatively ignorant of the political situation in PR but it's obvious that this isn't a situation with near-universal consensus.
- dragonwriter 9y agoThe pro-status-quo groups have been actively avoiding honest participation from the 1998 vote on, because they'd rather a vote with unclear results than a clear loss (though even so, they clearly lost in 2012, though their non-participation in the “if not status quo, then what” part of that ballot was used as grounds to deny the import of the substantial win by Statehood on that ballot.)
- sskates 9y agoThis is correct. I'm surprised at how much bad information there is in this thread. There hasn't been a clear mandate for a desire to become a state from Puerto Ricans and until that happens Congress has indicated it won't do anything. Both parties support the territory's right to self-determination. It has nothing to do with who Puerto Rico is likely to represent in Congress or the Electoral College: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statehood_movement_in_Puerto_Rico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statehood_movement_in_Puerto_R...
- maxerickson 9y agoWhat's a "clear mandate"?
- jpatokal 9y agoA poll where a majority of the population both votes and votes for statehood.
- maxerickson 9y agoOkay, I'll pencil you in for 50.01%. I wonder what the clear mandate will be for what a clear mandate is.
- emodendroket 9y agoBy this standard no president has had a mandate for a long time either
- jldugger 9y agoNot wrong.
- dragonwriter 9y agoStatehood won by the terms of the 2012 referendum and the 2017 do-over the federal government asked for rather than honoring the 2012 result.
- trhway 9y agothey should have probably used "colony". >be called a state, why can't we do the same for Puerto Rico? it isn't a state. As in taxation without representation.
- carbocation 9y agoIt's not really clear why this is downvoted. I'm not a Puerto Rico expert, but a brief review of the Wikipedia article indicates that the UN has been conducting "decolonization" investigations to see how to assist Puerto Rico in becoming either a state or independent. And I don't think it's arguable that Puerto Rico doesn't have elected representation in Congress or in the Electoral College.
- foota 9y agoThey're also not taxed like a state, citizens resident there aren't taxed on income, except for social security, which they receive the benefits of. So no, they're not represented, but they also don't have the same burdens. Edit: it does sound like they might get shorted on Medicare benefits? It's unclear. Edit2: this article looks at the difference between spending and taxes, in 2011, for all states and Puerto Rico: https://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union https://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-...
- carbocation 9y agoThank you for that clarification.
- spaceseaman 9y agoThe way the comment is written it appears to be attacking Puerto Rico and claiming that it is better suited to be called a "colony". If the poster was unaware, this word has a very negative connotation due to what has happened to many of the places the United States and England have colonized. eg Haiti, India, "Just open a history textbook" If the poster was instead trying to use this bad connotation to assist the argument that Puerto Rico probably shouldn't be a territory (which I now assume after looking at your comment), then that argument was lost in what was written. The writing is unclear in its intent, and that is likely why some folks misunderstood it. It kinda assumes you get lucky and interpret what he's saying the right way.
- explorigin 9y agoIn short, money and influence. Puerto Rico is too poor. By giving it statehood, that opens it up to receiving a lot more federal money that is already hotly contended over. Puerto Rico doesn't have enough would-be voters to make a difference for either party.
- allemagne 9y agoIt would, however, have two senators likely to be Democratic.
- emodendroket 9y agoYeah but not appealing to the government as constituted
- uncletaco 9y agoYou know Puerto Rico has its own political parties, right? I would hope you're also aware that the party in power is center right. If Puerto Rico were to join as a state you'd more likely than not find its politicians trying to retain their own party ties. At least do some research.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> You know Puerto Rico has its own political parties, right? I would hope you're also aware that the party in power is center right. The Democratic Party (well, it's currently dominant faction, at least) is also center right. > If Puerto Rico were to join as a state you'd more likely than not find its politicians trying to retain their own party ties. There'd be strong pressure to fuse with or be displaced by the national parties once PR was involved in Congress and, more importantly, Presidential elections; the days of states having distinct local major parties on a lasting basis likely ended when the Minnesota Farmer-Labor Party aligned with the national Democratic Party, and the nationalization (and globalization) of the media, combined with the way electoral politics works means that's unlikely to change even with the admission of new states with pre-existing party systems.
- pavanred 9y agoWhat surprised me was that almost every news report/pleas on tv shows to help seemed to mention and emphasize that these people are American citizens. I didn't see the same thing happen with the other hurricane coverage. Is awareness about this really an issue?
- bshep 9y agoyes. a lot of people are unaware of puerto rico’s status and its peoples citizenship.
- diggernet 9y agoIn no small part due to years of national news pretty much ignoring the existence of Puerto Rico.
- bshep 9y agoone citation, but i'm sure there are more: "Nearly Half of Americans Don’t Know Puerto Ricans Are Fellow Citizens" - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/upshot/nearly-half-of-americans-dont-know-people-in-puerto-ricoans-are-fellow-citizens.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/upshot/nearly-half-of-ame...
- chrisco255 9y agoI wonder if these polls are as accurate as election polls.
- bshep 9y agoWell I didn't look at the data and i'm sure theres some error in the results. But even if they are off by 20-30% thats still A LOT of people who dont know about PR status, etc. Anecdotally (i know thats not a good example) most people I speak to always ask if needed a visa to more to one of the 50 states, they ask if you need a passport to visit and they ask if you can drive to PR.
- learc83 9y ago
- bluetwo 9y agoI used to be wishy washy about PR becoming a state. Now I'm 100% behind it. This is what happens with taxation without representation. Eventually you get screwed.
- panarky 9y ago> taxation without representation Residents of Puerto Rico don't pay Federal income tax. They do pay other Federal taxes such as social security and import duties. A number of hedge fund managers and other high-net-worth people have established homes in PR just to avoid Federal income tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico
- matt_wulfeck 9y agoand those are taxes all citizens of our country pay.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Swizec 9y ago> > taxation without representation > Residents of Puerto Rico don't pay Federal income tax. As an immigrant I get to both pay federal taxes and can’t vote, so no representation. :) Just pointing out they’re not necessarily correlated.
- anarazel 9y ago> As an immigrant I get to both pay federal taxes and can’t vote, so no representation. :) Well, generally constitutional rights don't fully apply to us non-citizens. Don't think that's a very meaningful argument in this context.
- rayiner 9y agoPuerto Ricans are eligible for social security and Medicare, so they’re getting something in return for those. Puerto Rican corporations also don’t pay federal corporation tax.
- emodendroket 9y agoThe main reason is that some people in the federal government would lose out if it happened, although resistance from people who would rather be an independent nation is a secondary factor.
- ransom1538 9y agoA state is represented by two Senators (regardless of population). This would mean making PR a state would dilute other states votes. Regarding the House of Representatives, PR has a "delegate", called the Resident Commissioner - which have almost no voting power. The population also tends to vote almost %50/50 for democratic vs republican [i]. This setup basically gives no incentive for either party to push for PR to be a state. (Even though it should be). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_Puerto_Rico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_Pu...
- lotsofpulp 9y agoIt might still not be enough. Washington D.C. would almost certainly be a Democratic vote, but as I understand it, there's no way Republicans will allow D.C. voters to be represented in the Senate, all the while babbling about patriotism.
- culturestate 9y agoThere's another more important problem for that specific situation: statehood (and the equivalent representation) for D.C. would require a constitutional amendment.
- emodendroket 9y agoSo what? We've done that before.
- culturestate 9y agoIt's actually incredibly difficult to get a constitutional amendment heard and ratified. Even the equal rights amendment was shouted down despite massive bipartisan support. [Note] Also, such an amendment has already been sent to the states and failed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_Voting_Rights_Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_Voting_Ri...
- ringaroundthetx 9y agoFor statehood or even complete sovereignty and independence: - People are US citizens, but can't vote in any national US election, except when they literally happen to be in any other state, then they can vote for President and that state's congressional representatives, and that state's local officials. - The rationale for setting Puerto Rico's as a territory is prettttty racist by today's standards. Against statehood: - Federal money going yet somewhere else. - Diluting representation in Congress. - 51 though? yuck.
- int_19h 9y ago51 stars won't look bad on the flag. Some arrangements are actually very nice. This is the traditional one: http://a.abcnews.com/images/ABC_Univision/reddit_flags_FlagStandard_wmain.jpg http://a.abcnews.com/images/ABC_Univision/reddit_flags_FlagS... Some more creative takes a la early US flags: http://a.abcnews.com/images/ABC_Univision/reddit_flags_FlagTrinity_wmain.jpg http://a.abcnews.com/images/ABC_Univision/reddit_flags_FlagT... http://a.abcnews.com/images/ABC_Univision/reddit_flags_flagcircle_wmain.jpg http://a.abcnews.com/images/ABC_Univision/reddit_flags_flagc...
- mwfunk 9y agoIt's up to Puerto Rico. Every few years they have votes on statehood, and so far they've always turned it down.
- emodendroket 9y agoThey voted in favor the last two times
- randyrand 9y agoI'd rather we just let them be independent. Where's the harm in that? This country is already a juggernought. No more states. We could even stand to shed some others.
- emodendroket 9y agoThe Puerto Rican economy, at least on the coasts, is highly intermingled with the US economy and it wouldn't necessarily be favorable to them to get independence. You'll find more support for it in the interior where it is more rural and people have fewer economic links to the United States.
- gasbag 9y ago> The Puerto Rican economy, at least on the coasts, is highly intermingled with the US economy In large part due to the Jones act, which discourages trade between PR and its Caribbean neighbors.
- emodendroket 9y agoEven if you got rid of that, would a patchwork of Caribbean nations really replace the US as an economic partner?
- gasbag 9y agoI don't think the US would stop trading with Puerto Rico, so I suppose the question is if the increased trade with Caribbean nations would offset however much trade with the US mainland would diminish. I don't know the answer to that, but it could probably be found by looking at how Caribbean nations' trade compares with Puerto Rico's trade today.
- emodendroket 9y agoYes, I'd just expect the "common market" effect would be significant. I'll bet it would have been harder to manufacture pharmaceuticals for sale in the US in the Dominican Republic, for instance.