3 ms·

If you're big on America First, why wouldn't you want the best foreign entrepreneurs to come and found great companies that generate American jobs, American tax

If you're big on America First, why wouldn't you want the best foreign entrepreneurs to come and found great companies that generate American jobs, American taxes, and American products?

andreasklinger 9y ago
Assuming your question is rhetorical but to be sure: Imho because it's implicit signaling of `Americans First` (and here implicit only a subset of them)
pm90 9y ago
Because Trump is not big on America first. He is only big on creating illusions of success for his base. And nothing makes his base happier than to keep immigrants out. Or basically anything that will incense the more urban, liberal Americans.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
MattCuery 9y ago
The best reason why to exclude foreigners from American domestic labor market unless they are highly skilled is that jobs and careers have an economic and social impact beyond mere monetary returns. China knows this all too well in their economic policy.
craftyguy 9y ago
'America first' has everything to do with weeding out, and keeping out, people who are not the same ethnicity as those in power, and nothing to do with actually benefiting the country.
- mbrumlow 9y ago
  You do realize "America first' also prevents masses of white guys from across the pond from coming here and doing the same thing? I can't down vote but please don't make everything about race on HN, reddit and twitter are bad enough about jumping to crazy racist notions when trying to have a intellectual conversation.
  - craftyguy 9y ago
    Racism doesn't always have to do with skin color. A general hatred towards anyone that doesn't look, act, or speak like an American is still racism.
    - steve1011 9y ago
      American is not a race.
      - yahna 9y ago
        Semantics.
  - yahna 9y ago
    It's calling a spade a spade.
irrational 9y ago
Because many of Trump's base are low-educated rural people who see the American jobs being generated by the best foreign entrepreneurs as requiring higher education and skills than they possess.
- MattCuery 9y ago
  This is so untrue. There are many many American founders who are dying for mentorship and support and anything from VC, and many many more people who want to develop their careers in innovative ways who have degrees in STEM. Domestic innovation even if it's copy cat is socially better than importing non natives.
- rayiner 9y ago
  I'm a high-income, highly educated immigrant. I grew up among similar people, and witnessed the extreme derision directed at "low-educated rural people." Given that, it's a bit difficult for me to blame Trump's base for not wanting more of us here.
  - nostrademons 9y ago
    Eh, I don't blame them, but I also don't blame the high-income highly-educated immigrants for feeling derisive toward people whose only asset is that they're American. I think Tom Lehrer's 1967 observations are still remarkably on-point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs4jY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs4jY
    - rayiner 9y ago
      I think it's pretty hypocritical. India and China certainly don't subscribe to the "credo nation" concept that American elites have embraced. In Bangladesh, when we speak about other Bangladeshis we identify precisely where in the country their families are from. (It'd be like making it a point to note that someone was from Texas or Virginia.) But when we speak of people from outside the country, we call everyone "bideshi" ("foreigner"), regardless of nationality. An American could move to Bangladesh as a young child and live there her whole life, but she'd always be "bideshi."
maga2020 9y ago
Because they are often fair weather friends with no particular loyalty or allegiance to the USA or our values, and will flee for their home country as soon as convenience dictates. Just like with other aspects of the labor market (agriculture, hospitality) where illegal immigration undercuts Americans, VCs are doing labor market arbitrage and are importing cheaper "founders" who essentially become visa hostages. It doesn't benefit anyone except the silicon valley elite, who also run this site, incidentally.
- wickawic 9y ago
  > Because they are often fair weather friends No different than any other capitalist investor!
  - MattCuery 9y ago
    And the neoliberal class are highly mobile, they are rootless people and no one can really ever forget that.
- anindha 9y ago
  VCs are free to invest in foreign based companies, so that would be the best arbitrage. Its in the interests of the US to maintain the strong network that already exists. I am not sure how essential is this visa category, since there are other categories most founders would qualify under.
- SubuSS 9y ago
  I am surprised you think that uprooting your entire living and moving to a different country is that easy: I mean do you do that for convenience sake even inside the USA? These are people (including me) who come in here and build a bunch of local connections. Turning it personal, Our kids go to school here. I own a house here. I have a ton of friends here. I pay taxes and donate/volunteer when I can. I ride bicycles everywhere if that matters. (No I am not blue/democrat because I can't vote :). You are also touching on other issues like visa hostages. Most of those people who feel that they are in a 'hostage' scenario can go back anytime they want but most of them choose to stay. I say most because there are definitely a few who can't but whatever. In my case, I could've stayed back in India and worked for similar companies (Both my prior companies have a big presence there), but here is where I want to be. Now you can say me being here ONLY benefits my employer or elites, but I definitely don't think of that way: I think of it as an incredible opportunity and like any other big-system process, it has its troubles. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
rayiner 9y ago
Many people who are "America First" don't just care about the economy, they care about preserving American identity and culture. I immigrated to the U.S. when I was five. I tend to think I fit in pretty well, but my attitudes are definitely different than those of my wife, whose family has been here for hundreds of years. (For example, I have a much higher pain threshold for political and social turmoil given what things are like where I'm from.) You can, of course, disagree about whether that is a valid or justifiable impulse (and I'd be inclined to agree with you on that). But it's not a mysterious or even unusual one. Heck, we have a founding EU member state on the precipice of fracturing along a linguistic boundary. Certainly, if the shoe were on the other foot and a huge fraction of people running major Indian or Chinese businesses were American immigrants, lots of people would be pretty upset.
crispyambulance 9y ago
I think people are reading too much into this inaction. The Trump administration is floundering, grossly understaffed and unable to keep a consistent approach on anything. In addition to being vile and reprehensible, it is also incompetent. This is an example of mere incompetence. What's that quote again... "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
alexanderstears 9y ago
The nature of your disagreement is what people mean by "America first". You probably take it to mean natural American leadership in business / science. Others - those who probably identify more with the statement - take it to mean that America should put its domestic interests first. Now, denying visas to entrepreneurs probably would be a policy that harms American interests but it's not high up the list and the dissident rightists have an incentive to mess up immigration as much as possible - it'll give them a better position to renegotiate an immigration system. I think the primary problem with our immigration system is that both sides represent corporate interests in that they want a companies to have access to inexpensive workers and so we get problems like H1-B that make it difficult for H1-B workers to change employers or negotiate a higher salary / better position. The other problem is that people with left-wing sympathies want an immigration system that works better for people who aren't poised to do skilled work and they know that they can't cut separate deals on skilled immigration and unskilled immigration because unskilled immigration isn't as politically desirable. Blame uneducated voters, sure. But there's a reason we're not doing the thing that's clearly right here and it's not because of Trump's base.

If you're big on America First, why wouldn't you want the best foreign entrepreneurs to come and found great companies that generate American jobs, American taxes, and American products?

andreasklinger 9y ago

Assuming your question is rhetorical but to be sure: Imho because it's implicit signaling of `Americans First` (and here implicit only a subset of them)

pm90 9y ago

Because Trump is not big on America first. He is only big on creating illusions of success for his base. And nothing makes his base happier than to keep immigrants out. Or basically anything that will incense the more urban, liberal Americans.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

MattCuery 9y ago

The best reason why to exclude foreigners from American domestic labor market unless they are highly skilled is that jobs and careers have an economic and social impact beyond mere monetary returns. China knows this all too well in their economic policy.

craftyguy 9y ago

'America first' has everything to do with weeding out, and keeping out, people who are not the same ethnicity as those in power, and nothing to do with actually benefiting the country.

mbrumlow 9y ago
You do realize "America first' also prevents masses of white guys from across the pond from coming here and doing the same thing? I can't down vote but please don't make everything about race on HN, reddit and twitter are bad enough about jumping to crazy racist notions when trying to have a intellectual conversation.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  Racism doesn't always have to do with skin color. A general hatred towards anyone that doesn't look, act, or speak like an American is still racism.
  - steve1011 9y ago
    American is not a race.
    - yahna 9y ago
      Semantics.
- yahna 9y ago
  It's calling a spade a spade.

irrational 9y ago

Because many of Trump's base are low-educated rural people who see the American jobs being generated by the best foreign entrepreneurs as requiring higher education and skills than they possess.

MattCuery 9y ago
This is so untrue. There are many many American founders who are dying for mentorship and support and anything from VC, and many many more people who want to develop their careers in innovative ways who have degrees in STEM. Domestic innovation even if it's copy cat is socially better than importing non natives.
rayiner 9y ago
I'm a high-income, highly educated immigrant. I grew up among similar people, and witnessed the extreme derision directed at "low-educated rural people." Given that, it's a bit difficult for me to blame Trump's base for not wanting more of us here.
- nostrademons 9y ago
  Eh, I don't blame them, but I also don't blame the high-income highly-educated immigrants for feeling derisive toward people whose only asset is that they're American. I think Tom Lehrer's 1967 observations are still remarkably on-point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs4jY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs4jY
  - rayiner 9y ago
    I think it's pretty hypocritical. India and China certainly don't subscribe to the "credo nation" concept that American elites have embraced. In Bangladesh, when we speak about other Bangladeshis we identify precisely where in the country their families are from. (It'd be like making it a point to note that someone was from Texas or Virginia.) But when we speak of people from outside the country, we call everyone "bideshi" ("foreigner"), regardless of nationality. An American could move to Bangladesh as a young child and live there her whole life, but she'd always be "bideshi."

maga2020 9y ago

Because they are often fair weather friends with no particular loyalty or allegiance to the USA or our values, and will flee for their home country as soon as convenience dictates. Just like with other aspects of the labor market (agriculture, hospitality) where illegal immigration undercuts Americans, VCs are doing labor market arbitrage and are importing cheaper "founders" who essentially become visa hostages. It doesn't benefit anyone except the silicon valley elite, who also run this site, incidentally.

wickawic 9y ago
> Because they are often fair weather friends No different than any other capitalist investor!
- MattCuery 9y ago
  And the neoliberal class are highly mobile, they are rootless people and no one can really ever forget that.
anindha 9y ago
VCs are free to invest in foreign based companies, so that would be the best arbitrage. Its in the interests of the US to maintain the strong network that already exists. I am not sure how essential is this visa category, since there are other categories most founders would qualify under.
SubuSS 9y ago
I am surprised you think that uprooting your entire living and moving to a different country is that easy: I mean do you do that for convenience sake even inside the USA? These are people (including me) who come in here and build a bunch of local connections. Turning it personal, Our kids go to school here. I own a house here. I have a ton of friends here. I pay taxes and donate/volunteer when I can. I ride bicycles everywhere if that matters. (No I am not blue/democrat because I can't vote :). You are also touching on other issues like visa hostages. Most of those people who feel that they are in a 'hostage' scenario can go back anytime they want but most of them choose to stay. I say most because there are definitely a few who can't but whatever. In my case, I could've stayed back in India and worked for similar companies (Both my prior companies have a big presence there), but here is where I want to be. Now you can say me being here ONLY benefits my employer or elites, but I definitely don't think of that way: I think of it as an incredible opportunity and like any other big-system process, it has its troubles. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

rayiner 9y ago

Many people who are "America First" don't just care about the economy, they care about preserving American identity and culture. I immigrated to the U.S. when I was five. I tend to think I fit in pretty well, but my attitudes are definitely different than those of my wife, whose family has been here for hundreds of years. (For example, I have a much higher pain threshold for political and social turmoil given what things are like where I'm from.) You can, of course, disagree about whether that is a valid or justifiable impulse (and I'd be inclined to agree with you on that). But it's not a mysterious or even unusual one. Heck, we have a founding EU member state on the precipice of fracturing along a linguistic boundary. Certainly, if the shoe were on the other foot and a huge fraction of people running major Indian or Chinese businesses were American immigrants, lots of people would be pretty upset.

crispyambulance 9y ago

I think people are reading too much into this inaction. The Trump administration is floundering, grossly understaffed and unable to keep a consistent approach on anything. In addition to being vile and reprehensible, it is also incompetent. This is an example of mere incompetence. What's that quote again... "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

alexanderstears 9y ago

The nature of your disagreement is what people mean by "America first". You probably take it to mean natural American leadership in business / science. Others - those who probably identify more with the statement - take it to mean that America should put its domestic interests first. Now, denying visas to entrepreneurs probably would be a policy that harms American interests but it's not high up the list and the dissident rightists have an incentive to mess up immigration as much as possible - it'll give them a better position to renegotiate an immigration system. I think the primary problem with our immigration system is that both sides represent corporate interests in that they want a companies to have access to inexpensive workers and so we get problems like H1-B that make it difficult for H1-B workers to change employers or negotiate a higher salary / better position. The other problem is that people with left-wing sympathies want an immigration system that works better for people who aren't poised to do skilled work and they know that they can't cut separate deals on skilled immigration and unskilled immigration because unskilled immigration isn't as politically desirable. Blame uneducated voters, sure. But there's a reason we're not doing the thing that's clearly right here and it's not because of Trump's base.