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Amateur extreme. Pro's need a machine that can evolve over time. More memory, larger storage as it becomes available, God forbid - a faster cpu. Remember the

by bkdbkd 9y ago

Amateur extreme. Pro's need a machine that can evolve over time. More memory, larger storage as it becomes available, God forbid - a faster cpu. Remember the PC platform is inherently upgradeable. The LGA2066 chipset can be used with 8+ different CPU's. Pro's invest in proper tools to support their work, not in souped up toys. Without offense meant to my Honda bretheren, this in the same line as the $100,000 Civic mods. You certainly can, and it will be cool, but possibly not the best use of that money. Its attractive because of the top end features. But they come in trapped in a disposable package. While that would not be terrible for $300 laptop, it is a piss-poor investment for what 9to5mac says will be a $17,500 top of the line box. Why? The instant one of the features is offspec,too little, to slow , you have an entire $17,000 machine that's too little, too slow. And no mic input? Why? That's just silly. It cost them more to leave that out. It belongs with Pro-Racecars, with prepacked engines and hoods welded shut, and with Pro-Lawn tools with no serviceable parts.

morley 9y ago
> Pro's need a machine that can evolve over time. Is this really true though for Apple's target market? I'm guessing that if I'm an artist for Pixar and I need a new "professional" machine, the company is 9 times out of 10 going to buy me a new computer rather than buying me a video card upgrade. I'd imagine most large corporations would do something like that since it's more scalable than upgrading individual parts piecemeal. Buying one "pro" machine and upgrading it over a number of years seems like more of what I'd call an "enthusiast" strategy. I think it's reasonable that Apple is betting that Mac "enthusiasts" would be willing to upgrade their machine wholesale after a number of years (maybe recouping value by reselling their old machine) rather than extensively researching new video cards and buying one off Newegg. Maybe they're wrong and people aren't willing to do that, but it's their prerogative to place that bet.
evilduck 9y ago
I hear this sentiment all the time that "pro users need the ability to upgrade" but not once in a decade of my professional programming career have I _ever_ seen a computer at a workplace upgraded. They get purchased, they get repaired, they get retired or they trickle down to "lesser users", but I've never seen anyone get additional RAM or a drop in CPU replacement on an employer-owned machine. If you needed a better computer all I've ever seen is a new computer purchased.
- ksec 9y ago
  Yes, it may seem counter intuitive, but most Pro are the ones who dont want to fiddle around with their computers.
- Vadoff 9y ago
  By the time a top of the line PC needs an "upgrade", an entirely different CPU/RAM architecture will probably be top of the line anyways.
- greggman 9y ago
  well since we're sharing anecdotes I have seen machines get upgraded at work. working on a game. PVS calc took lots of memory and lots of time. Everyone's machines got a 6x upgrade in ram so they could be used at night to compute the PVS. another anecdote. friend in another game found rebuilding assets on SSD was several X faster. Since the entire team was often waiting hours for asset builds to finish all machines got upgraded to have SSD. this is especially true in GPU related fields. new gpus enable new things
  - evilduck 9y ago
    I'm sure it happens in many industries, but my point is that I don't think it makes this an "amateur" computer. Plenty of professional employees will want one, get one, and will be completely unaffected by the design. Plenty of people will be on the other side of that too.
- appleiigs 9y ago
  I've seen increased RAM and changed video cards to get multiple screens. The company I work for buys 1 standard setup, then upgrades depending on who's using it.
- sangnoir 9y ago
  Counter anecdote: my workplace performed SSD + RAM upgrades for everyone and that fit well within that year's budget. The alternative would have to wait another year (or more) to replace all the laptops at a much greater cost.
- 9y ago
brogrammernot 9y ago
Professional Independent contractors, sure I’ll buy that argument. Never once, in all of the tech companies I’ve worked for, have I seen anyone upgrade a computer. Even recently, my Mac had an issue with parallels that couldn’t get resolved. New Mac given to me. Coworker had a 1.5 year old thinkpad. Just needed to swap the RAM from 8 to 16. Nope, just was given a new Thinkpad with 16 gigs instead of spending $150 on RAM. Companies write off a ton of these expenses, and they don’t “upgrade” the hardware. They upgrade the machine.
- captainmuon 9y ago
  They'd be stupid to throw away money / working components. Often, old PCs go back to a "pool", where they are upgraded or scavenged for parts, and then given to new employees. Only when they are too old to upgrade, or it is not worth the work, they are sold to employees or dumped. From the perspective of employees, you just get a new PC. Essentially you just need a room for parts and a few employees part time, and you can use your computing resources much more efficiently - basically free money. Granted, it only works for organisations of a certain size (large corporations, universities, gov.).
- ebiester 9y ago
  I will say that we had some issues at one fortune 500 company where we were passing RAM sticks out to contractors because the computers had pitiful amounts of memory, but they weren't fully capitalized. Dumb things happen when productivity is abstracted. But again, these are not the people given iMac pros.
- mirkules 9y ago
  Your anecdotal experience is opposite of mine: at my place, we still use 4-5 year old computers, and frequently upgrade hard drives, memory, video cards even when needed. We have a few rooms dedicated to spare parts, and when we can't find what we need, new ones are bought. And honestly, my 4yo PC doesn't really need upgrading just so I can open my IDE or browser 20 seconds faster. Granted, we are an enterprise shop with a few dozen devs - exactly two people have a mac. So we're not exactly Apple's target (enterprise never was)
teilo 9y ago
> And no mic input? Why? That's just silly. It cost them more to leave that out. Do you mean separate mic input? Because it has the same combo headphone jack as all existing Macs. So it has mic input. As a pro audio user, a built-in mic input is useless anyway. We have external USB3, TB, or Firewire interfaces for that. Lower noise, better DACs, phantom power, HiZ and XLR inputs, etc. Beyond pro, nobody uses mic input unless they are using an iPhone headset on their Mac. Everyone is using USB mikes/headsets.
- bkdbkd 9y ago
  Ah.. a combo. that works
jmull 9y ago
Pros generally want to be paid for their time, and it’s hard to get someone to pay you a nice rate to fiddle with your machine.

by bkdbkd 9y ago

morley 9y ago

> Pro's need a machine that can evolve over time. Is this really true though for Apple's target market? I'm guessing that if I'm an artist for Pixar and I need a new "professional" machine, the company is 9 times out of 10 going to buy me a new computer rather than buying me a video card upgrade. I'd imagine most large corporations would do something like that since it's more scalable than upgrading individual parts piecemeal. Buying one "pro" machine and upgrading it over a number of years seems like more of what I'd call an "enthusiast" strategy. I think it's reasonable that Apple is betting that Mac "enthusiasts" would be willing to upgrade their machine wholesale after a number of years (maybe recouping value by reselling their old machine) rather than extensively researching new video cards and buying one off Newegg. Maybe they're wrong and people aren't willing to do that, but it's their prerogative to place that bet.

evilduck 9y ago

I hear this sentiment all the time that "pro users need the ability to upgrade" but not once in a decade of my professional programming career have I _ever_ seen a computer at a workplace upgraded. They get purchased, they get repaired, they get retired or they trickle down to "lesser users", but I've never seen anyone get additional RAM or a drop in CPU replacement on an employer-owned machine. If you needed a better computer all I've ever seen is a new computer purchased.

ksec 9y ago
Yes, it may seem counter intuitive, but most Pro are the ones who dont want to fiddle around with their computers.
Vadoff 9y ago
By the time a top of the line PC needs an "upgrade", an entirely different CPU/RAM architecture will probably be top of the line anyways.
greggman 9y ago
well since we're sharing anecdotes I have seen machines get upgraded at work. working on a game. PVS calc took lots of memory and lots of time. Everyone's machines got a 6x upgrade in ram so they could be used at night to compute the PVS. another anecdote. friend in another game found rebuilding assets on SSD was several X faster. Since the entire team was often waiting hours for asset builds to finish all machines got upgraded to have SSD. this is especially true in GPU related fields. new gpus enable new things
- evilduck 9y ago
  I'm sure it happens in many industries, but my point is that I don't think it makes this an "amateur" computer. Plenty of professional employees will want one, get one, and will be completely unaffected by the design. Plenty of people will be on the other side of that too.
appleiigs 9y ago
I've seen increased RAM and changed video cards to get multiple screens. The company I work for buys 1 standard setup, then upgrades depending on who's using it.
sangnoir 9y ago
Counter anecdote: my workplace performed SSD + RAM upgrades for everyone and that fit well within that year's budget. The alternative would have to wait another year (or more) to replace all the laptops at a much greater cost.
9y ago

brogrammernot 9y ago

Professional Independent contractors, sure I’ll buy that argument. Never once, in all of the tech companies I’ve worked for, have I seen anyone upgrade a computer. Even recently, my Mac had an issue with parallels that couldn’t get resolved. New Mac given to me. Coworker had a 1.5 year old thinkpad. Just needed to swap the RAM from 8 to 16. Nope, just was given a new Thinkpad with 16 gigs instead of spending $150 on RAM. Companies write off a ton of these expenses, and they don’t “upgrade” the hardware. They upgrade the machine.

captainmuon 9y ago
They'd be stupid to throw away money / working components. Often, old PCs go back to a "pool", where they are upgraded or scavenged for parts, and then given to new employees. Only when they are too old to upgrade, or it is not worth the work, they are sold to employees or dumped. From the perspective of employees, you just get a new PC. Essentially you just need a room for parts and a few employees part time, and you can use your computing resources much more efficiently - basically free money. Granted, it only works for organisations of a certain size (large corporations, universities, gov.).
ebiester 9y ago
I will say that we had some issues at one fortune 500 company where we were passing RAM sticks out to contractors because the computers had pitiful amounts of memory, but they weren't fully capitalized. Dumb things happen when productivity is abstracted. But again, these are not the people given iMac pros.
mirkules 9y ago
Your anecdotal experience is opposite of mine: at my place, we still use 4-5 year old computers, and frequently upgrade hard drives, memory, video cards even when needed. We have a few rooms dedicated to spare parts, and when we can't find what we need, new ones are bought. And honestly, my 4yo PC doesn't really need upgrading just so I can open my IDE or browser 20 seconds faster. Granted, we are an enterprise shop with a few dozen devs - exactly two people have a mac. So we're not exactly Apple's target (enterprise never was)

teilo 9y ago

> And no mic input? Why? That's just silly. It cost them more to leave that out. Do you mean separate mic input? Because it has the same combo headphone jack as all existing Macs. So it has mic input. As a pro audio user, a built-in mic input is useless anyway. We have external USB3, TB, or Firewire interfaces for that. Lower noise, better DACs, phantom power, HiZ and XLR inputs, etc. Beyond pro, nobody uses mic input unless they are using an iPhone headset on their Mac. Everyone is using USB mikes/headsets.

bkdbkd 9y ago
Ah.. a combo. that works

jmull 9y ago

Pros generally want to be paid for their time, and it’s hard to get someone to pay you a nice rate to fiddle with your machine.