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A very shallow argument. The author doesn't take into account realities of most companies out in the marketplace. I'm exaggerating of course, but not every comp

by osipov 19y ago

A very shallow argument. The author doesn't take into account realities of most companies out in the marketplace. I'm exaggerating of course, but not every company is like Google which can afford to hire Ph.Ds to write high performance code for distributed systems. In a typical mid-market business (500-5k employees), if the company can afford it, the IT dept. is staffed with "Bob"s from accounting who started programming using scripts in Excel and then moved on to basic Java. These aren't the people who know about lambda calculus, Petri nets or even nuances of ORM. So for them, a workflow product that works well in a distributed environment, e.g. supports a range of databases, web service integration, long running processes, asynchronous invocation is a huge time saver and productivity boost.

gruseom 19y ago
You're assuming your conclusion. Obviously, a product that dramatically simplified programming to the point where anyone (or "Bob") could do most of what they need, would be valuable. The question is whether these products really do that, or merely appear to.
- osipov 19y ago
  >Obviously, a product that dramatically simplified programming to the point where anyone (or "Bob") could do most of what they need, would be valuable. You are attacking a strawman :) My claim pointed out specific types of problems that are solved by workflow software, and solved in substance, not in form.
  - gruseom 19y ago
    My claim pointed out specific types of problems that are solved by workflow software It did? I wonder how I read it ten times and missed that. "Distributed systems" doesn't seem like a very "specific type of problem" to me.
    - osipov 19y ago
      >supports a range of databases, web service integration, long running processes, asynchronous invocation those are specific examples of problems that a workflow product would address and consequently a programmer wouldn't need to spend time on building from scratch.
      - gruseom 19y ago
        That's not a list of problems, it's a list of buzzwords. Edit: nor is it specific. The class of programs encompassing those things is enormous.
        osipov 19y ago
        >>The class of programs encompassing those things is enormous. Heh. Welcome to the real world. If you'd like to call them buzzwords, I don't care, it is your prerogative. They are what they are. People who have done workflow software know what they mean. If you were to spend some time on Google you'd get a sense of the meaning too.

by osipov 19y ago

gruseom 19y ago

You're assuming your conclusion. Obviously, a product that dramatically simplified programming to the point where anyone (or "Bob") could do most of what they need, would be valuable. The question is whether these products really do that, or merely appear to.

osipov 19y ago
>Obviously, a product that dramatically simplified programming to the point where anyone (or "Bob") could do most of what they need, would be valuable. You are attacking a strawman :) My claim pointed out specific types of problems that are solved by workflow software, and solved in substance, not in form.
- gruseom 19y ago
  My claim pointed out specific types of problems that are solved by workflow software It did? I wonder how I read it ten times and missed that. "Distributed systems" doesn't seem like a very "specific type of problem" to me.
  - osipov 19y ago
    >supports a range of databases, web service integration, long running processes, asynchronous invocation those are specific examples of problems that a workflow product would address and consequently a programmer wouldn't need to spend time on building from scratch.
    - gruseom 19y ago
      That's not a list of problems, it's a list of buzzwords. Edit: nor is it specific. The class of programs encompassing those things is enormous.
      - osipov 19y ago
        >>The class of programs encompassing those things is enormous. Heh. Welcome to the real world. If you'd like to call them buzzwords, I don't care, it is your prerogative. They are what they are. People who have done workflow software know what they mean. If you were to spend some time on Google you'd get a sense of the meaning too.