4 ms·

I have a feeling Elon will be reaching out to fix this customer’s issue soon. Hopefully this can help them fix whatever issues they’ve been having.

DannyBee 9y ago
Errr. Seems infinitely more their style so far to use whatever data the customer has given them to point out why it's entirely the customer's fault that something happened.
- smnrchrds 9y ago
  I have asked this question before on HN and did not receive an answer: Tesla's level of access and handling of customer data scares me. Are there any car manufacturers who respect their customer's privacy? Or does buying a car in 2017 mean I should expect my every move watched by the manufacturer and available to them to use as they please without my consent?
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    Until the law catches up...
  - DannyBee 9y ago
    I believe, sadly, it's the latter. They are also required by law (IIRC) to include more and more invasive black boxes in the cars anyway. So i guess they figure they might as well use the data. (I'm just waiting till my car says "Tired of stomping on the brake so much? Maybe you should stop commuting and try UberPool!")
    - smnrchrds 9y ago
      I would be OK if the black box is just that: a black box. A data source that can only be accessed via physical connection does not concern me. But 24/7 data transmission to manufacturer's severs is way too 1984 for my taste.
      - jlgaddis 9y ago
        I have mixed opinions about the "black boxes" in vehicles. In theory, it sounds like a good idea but I learned recently that police can quite easily download the data from them (via the OBD port) and apparently it is common for them to do so when investigating accidents -- especially fatal ones. AIUI, they are not required to obtain a warrant in order to grab this data and that is my primary concern.
  - lucaspiller 9y ago
    In the EU in 2018, stricter data protection laws are coming into place which includes a 'Right to object' [0]. Until it's tested in court it's hard to say what effect it will have though as it's worded quite vaguely. However, it'll be hard to argue that consumer apps like Spotify don't need to collect your usage data, as recommendations are a main chunk of their service, but a car doesn't need to track where, when and how you are driving so it should be possible to opt out of that. [0] https://gdpr-info.eu/art-21-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-21-gdpr/ - They are already in place at a EU level, but member states have until 2018 to bring them into national law.
  - jlgaddis 9y ago
    > Or does buying a car in 2017 mean I should expect my every move watched by the manufacturer and available to them to use as they please without my consent? I can't say with 100% certainty that it is happening, of course, but I do think that, yes, you should expect that it is. If, by some chance, it isn't happening, well, I'm sure it's just because they haven't figured out a way to make a dollar from the data yet. Give 'em time. I am actually pretty convinced that my truck "phones home" at regular intervals and sends at least some data back to the mothership (odometer data, in particular, but who knows what else), especially after a recent OTA-delivered software update (the first that I am aware of since purchasing the truck). I would not be surprised at all to learn that my car also does so. Both vehicles have built-in (3G) cellular connectivity and both have apps available for interacting with them in various ways from a mobile phone (FWIW, I have never installed them, set up the necessary accounts online, etc., and never will). In addition, ISTR hearing about (maybe a year or two ago?) some "data broker" that was purchasing vehicle data from manufacturers (or planning to do so, perhaps) and turning around and selling that data to automobile insurance companies. "Oh, he likes to drive 15 MPH over the speed limit? He's never been in an accident or been cited but let's go ahead and raise his rates anyways!". I have thought before about looking into how to disconnect the cellular radios in my vehicles (especially the Dodge RAM -- cf. Charlie Miller's work) but, now, I think I may go through with it. N.B.: My vehicles are 2013 (Dodge) and 2014 (Nissan) models. I'm sure things have only gotten worse in the few years since then.
  - tehlike 9y ago
    Nonsarcastic question: Is it just automobile manufacturers that you worry about, or a general invasion of privacy with everything we use in general?
eyeareque 9y ago
I’m confused why this was downvoted. Maybe I’m too optimistic.

DannyBee 9y ago

Errr. Seems infinitely more their style so far to use whatever data the customer has given them to point out why it's entirely the customer's fault that something happened.

smnrchrds 9y ago
I have asked this question before on HN and did not receive an answer: Tesla's level of access and handling of customer data scares me. Are there any car manufacturers who respect their customer's privacy? Or does buying a car in 2017 mean I should expect my every move watched by the manufacturer and available to them to use as they please without my consent?
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Until the law catches up...
- DannyBee 9y ago
  I believe, sadly, it's the latter. They are also required by law (IIRC) to include more and more invasive black boxes in the cars anyway. So i guess they figure they might as well use the data. (I'm just waiting till my car says "Tired of stomping on the brake so much? Maybe you should stop commuting and try UberPool!")
  - smnrchrds 9y ago
    I would be OK if the black box is just that: a black box. A data source that can only be accessed via physical connection does not concern me. But 24/7 data transmission to manufacturer's severs is way too 1984 for my taste.
    - jlgaddis 9y ago
      I have mixed opinions about the "black boxes" in vehicles. In theory, it sounds like a good idea but I learned recently that police can quite easily download the data from them (via the OBD port) and apparently it is common for them to do so when investigating accidents -- especially fatal ones. AIUI, they are not required to obtain a warrant in order to grab this data and that is my primary concern.
- lucaspiller 9y ago
  In the EU in 2018, stricter data protection laws are coming into place which includes a 'Right to object' [0]. Until it's tested in court it's hard to say what effect it will have though as it's worded quite vaguely. However, it'll be hard to argue that consumer apps like Spotify don't need to collect your usage data, as recommendations are a main chunk of their service, but a car doesn't need to track where, when and how you are driving so it should be possible to opt out of that. [0] https://gdpr-info.eu/art-21-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-21-gdpr/ - They are already in place at a EU level, but member states have until 2018 to bring them into national law.
- jlgaddis 9y ago
  > Or does buying a car in 2017 mean I should expect my every move watched by the manufacturer and available to them to use as they please without my consent? I can't say with 100% certainty that it is happening, of course, but I do think that, yes, you should expect that it is. If, by some chance, it isn't happening, well, I'm sure it's just because they haven't figured out a way to make a dollar from the data yet. Give 'em time. I am actually pretty convinced that my truck "phones home" at regular intervals and sends at least some data back to the mothership (odometer data, in particular, but who knows what else), especially after a recent OTA-delivered software update (the first that I am aware of since purchasing the truck). I would not be surprised at all to learn that my car also does so. Both vehicles have built-in (3G) cellular connectivity and both have apps available for interacting with them in various ways from a mobile phone (FWIW, I have never installed them, set up the necessary accounts online, etc., and never will). In addition, ISTR hearing about (maybe a year or two ago?) some "data broker" that was purchasing vehicle data from manufacturers (or planning to do so, perhaps) and turning around and selling that data to automobile insurance companies. "Oh, he likes to drive 15 MPH over the speed limit? He's never been in an accident or been cited but let's go ahead and raise his rates anyways!". I have thought before about looking into how to disconnect the cellular radios in my vehicles (especially the Dodge RAM -- cf. Charlie Miller's work) but, now, I think I may go through with it. N.B.: My vehicles are 2013 (Dodge) and 2014 (Nissan) models. I'm sure things have only gotten worse in the few years since then.
- tehlike 9y ago
  Nonsarcastic question: Is it just automobile manufacturers that you worry about, or a general invasion of privacy with everything we use in general?

eyeareque 9y ago

I’m confused why this was downvoted. Maybe I’m too optimistic.