5 ms·

Women in crypto

19 points by imartin2k 9y ago

red023 9y ago
Oh yet again another SJW crybaby piece. Stop getting offended. The tech and the crypto world is dominated by men for biological and historic reasons (Read James Damres pro-diversity Google memo and its sources). So obviously they are likely to think a women is +1 at a event. That does not make them evil white men who hate you. How about you stand up proudly and impress them with your crypto knowledge instead of this SJW BS?
Id15eba6u 9y ago
Sorry for the angry rant and I know this doesn't follow the general opinion of HN. But who cares. Why is it important to write an article of women in [Insert X]. Their gender is not important, and quite frankly demeaning of their efforts to further the field. Try to stray away from ad hominem
- antirez 9y ago
  You can easily restate the whole blog post and include other categories that are often victims of the same behaviors, because of physical differences, gender, nationality, and so forth. Yes, focusing just on women is not optimal IMHO because this also happens to other persons that should be defended as well, however it makes sense to remark that women are a "notable" category of discrimination. Also for the problems exposed in this blog post, I think the author really nailed it, and certain things are women-specific, like focusing and making a comment on the beauty instead of content, and also this eye contact thing. But in general it should always be remembered that the same happens to other categories.
  - lindajxie 9y ago
    Absolutely, I included in the post that gender was only one aspect of diversity that I was focusing on in the post but should have made that more clear.
antirez 9y ago
"introduces himself to the men in a group but ignores the women" A truly terrible thing is that I see this happening even in other contexts that have nothing to do with work. Sometimes women are just ignored for the first part of the conversation, or men will just look at other men when saying something. I hate it, it's deeply offensive, however the cool thing is that it takes just a single person to change the shape of the conversation and include everybody. P.S. the same thing is observed often with teenagers as well, which is equally disgusting.
- hueving 9y ago
  >I hate it, it's deeply offensive Deeply offensive, really? You must be exhausted from being so deeply offended all of the time. It's hyperbolic language like this that is really divisive because it makes people defensive when you're putting their actions in the same category of murders and violence (the "deeply offensive" category).
  - imartin2k 9y ago
    The "offensive" attribute aside (which I also have issues with in many contexts), doesn't antirez have a point?
    - Pica_soO 9y ago
      Social terror until everyone is on his/her toes and the resources are redistributed not according to achievement/risk&reward - but how high you are on the ladder in the new church of social progression? Is there a way to opt out of your version of society?
    - belorn 9y ago
      In order for antirez to have a point, let assume we built an experimental environment with cameras to observe how people behave. Let say we want to observe how eye contact is being made, in which order, and to whom and at what rate when a test person enters a group to introduce themselves. Variables we adjust are among things like hight, age, gender of test subject, gender distribution of the test group, appearance of strength, social economical status signals, gait, posture, and olfaction. Then we take a base line, and compare that to when we change a single variable. The question to be answered is: which variable has no effect, which variable has biggest effect, and what is the underlying reason when an variable has an effect.
Kiro 9y ago
> introduces himself to the men in a group but ignores the women > makes eye contact with the men while speaking and ignores the women I'm guilty of this but it's because I'm nervous about interacting with women in general.
- antirez 9y ago
  That's a good point: some people do it not for discrimination but for other problems. Another variation of what you say is "I'm guilty of this because I'm nervous about engaging in conversations with the woman of another person". And so forth. However with a dedicated effort you can fix this if you recognize is not what you want to do.
  - kaybe 9y ago
    I'm not sure if I get your viewpoint right. Considering a woman to be of another person and thus off-limits for talking is already quite sexist and offensive in the West. Maybe that's not what you're trying to say? (In this vein, everyone is sexist and discriminatory and we just have to work with it, so this is not supposed to pass judgement on the person doing it, just the idea. You're not your ideas.)
    - antirez 9y ago
      Hello, I can speak for Sicily, and here this mechanism can work both sides, simply there are people that avoid to engage too much with the mate of another person, regardless of the sex. While I also think this is unacceptable, at least for my cultural background and my values, I think it is still a simpler to correct and more acceptable thing compared to not making eye contact or speaking with a woman because of not giving her the same importance of the other men. So yes, anyway even not engaging with a person because of its sentimental status with other persons you do not want to upset is terrible, but at least is not so directly sexism.
- Cthulhu_ 9y ago
  Doubly so because there's strong punishments (being kicked out due to violating the CoC / making people feel uncomfortable, publicly shamed on twitter / blogs, etc) if you say the wrong thing. Not engaging at all is the safest course of action.
PKop 9y ago
It’s getting obvious now the scam faux outrage these people are pulling isn’t it? I think it’s transparent more so in this instance because... “the crypto currency industry” if that’s even really such a thing, started like yesterday. And has everyone not been beat over the head with gender bias this, misogyny that.. to an extant that were not gonna buy it this time? Who are these oppressive men running the decentralized crypto industry holding women back? And from what exactly... buying bitcoin? Running a mining rig? Pretty sure it’s an open market and women’s fiat is as good as men’s. Oh.. oh people didn’t talk to you at “crypto currency events”. Ohh... you want men to pay for subsidized tickets. I see. Does anyone read that blog and, gender aside, feel like that’s someone you’d enjoy hanging out with? Didn’t think so...
- justmyself 9y ago
  My experience so far with women in cryptocurrency as someone who attends quite a few meetups: The Beginner - Doesn't know much about cryptocurrency or technology in general, wants to learn about it for various reasons. There are men who fall into this category of course. I usually enjoy talking to these people. The Enthusiast - Knowledgeable and experienced in cryptocurrency topics. Fun to talk to. The Feminist - Might know something about cryptocurrency, but all she seems to do is plug the various "women in cryptocurrency" groups around the city. Rarely contributes to the conversation. Writes whiny blog/Twitter posts like this one. I think everyone is getting tired of this browbeating.
  - lindajxie 9y ago
    I can write blog posts like this one and be knowledgeable and experienced in cryptocurrency topics. Feel free to check out some of my other Medium posts https://medium.com/@linda.xie/ https://medium.com/@linda.xie/
- lindajxie 9y ago
  No, she doesn't seem fun. You however seem like a blast to hang out with :)
tomp 9y ago
> makes eye contact with the men while speaking and ignores the women Maybe they want to avoid accusations of flirting, being a creep and/or sexual accusations? Wouldn't surprise me, in this atmosphere...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  What atmosphere? I can look around right now and see 10+ male-female conversations happening with eye contact and no accusations of flirting, being a creep, etc.
  - Pica_soO 9y ago
    sure you are in tech?
staticelf 9y ago
People today get upset about fucking everything. Lets break the points down, shall we? > introduces himself to the men in a group but ignores the women Just bad behavior. Hard to say anything else about such a general claim. I can't say I share this experience. > makes eye contact with the men while speaking and ignores the women Well if you make eye contact with women today, some get offended so easily that they write blog posts and even accuse men of being creeps. If we don't, obviously we do not respect you. > asks a woman if she is a plus one at the event acts surprised to discover a woman knows about cryptocurrencies Not weird at all, how many women have you met that knows a lot about cryptocurrencies? Seriously, this is just statistics. Of course people are going to be surprised of this. It's like being mad about a person acting suprised in learning that another person never have taken a car ride. > comments on the woman’s appearance rather than what she is saying Most men are attracted to women in general, so unless this is in a moment that is highly unprofessional I am not surprised. However, I have pretty much never witnessed this except on psuedo-anonymous places like comment sections on internet, never IRL in a professional context. Personally, I follow people because what they do / what they have to say. I also believe most men do that. I am very tired of feminism and this constant nagging. In fact, it is my experience that women follow and judges people a lot more based on their looks and not what they actually have to say.
- watwut 9y ago
  "Not weird at all, how many women have you met that knows a lot about cryptocurrencies?" Overwhelming majority of men don't know about cryptocurrencies either. It is only people who go to tech events who do. Of people who go to meetups and such, I haven't seen any +1 of any gender. The assumption that if you went to tech event then you know about tech seems safe for anyone. And dunno, going meta offended over someone expressing that yep, this makes women questioning whether they are treated equally behind back is, well, being special snowflake too. You just explained to me what for construct is instead of reacting to my proposal seriously, do you want me to pretend I think I am treated equally? I know I am not, you know I am not (because statistics), so why expectation to pretend otherwise? It is just a lie.
  - staticelf 9y ago
foepys 9y ago
The blog post is not about cryptography but crypto currencies. This should be mentioned in the title.
jolux 9y ago
front page article, loaded with comments opposing its position with vitriol. HN as ever.
- watwut 9y ago
  I mean, there is one comment that disagrees? As much as I disagree with that one, calling it vitriol is an overstatement. And one that claims bitcoins are scam which is attack on bitcoins not on women?
  - jolux 9y ago
    One comment? The only positive one I saw was antirez's at the time I wrote this, and as of now the top comment calls it "scam faux outrage," the reply to which insinuates that this person is not worth listening to on this subject and/or is less experienced because they're a feminist, accusing feminists of "browbeating." The second comment from the top is your typical "kids these days" trope about snowflakes and says they're "very tired of feminism." Further down people imply you can't talk to women anymore because you'll be accused of harassment for no reason ("Wouldn't surprise me, in this atmosphere..."), dismissively ask why this needs to be discussed, blame the humanities for killing America with the cult of identity politics, claim all powerful women in tech are frauds, bemoaning this being "another SJW crybaby piece," and finally, above that one, someone who noticed the same thing I did ("As for other comments, I am really annoyed that mostly people come just here to complain that such article exists, and take all the space.") and someone who agrees with them.
ousta 9y ago
the main problem in the crypto or tech industry is not the misogyny it is the fact that the few women that have public visibility and power are scammers or frauds at best, just look at marissa mayer, ellen pao, Elizabeth holmes and now for crypto just look at paragon coin, google the ceo, breaking eggs on her half naked body in a tesla car on a clip and taking selfies in front of a pile of cash to promote her ICO. When women will stop blame men and stop idolizing a woman in tech just because she is a woman and not because she is doing great things (and there are legions of women in tech with no public exposure doing that) then we will move forward.
- dpc_pw 9y ago
  A counter-argument: majority of visible anything in cryptofin is a fraud, or shady at best.
rogerrabbit 9y ago
Thanks for the article ! I enjoy reading testimonies about misogyny in science and tech industry as it gives interesting insights on what concrete problems I can address. As for other comments, I am really annoyed that mostly people come just here to complain that such article exists, and take all the space. Just drop it ! The atmosphere is becoming as bad as reddit regarding misogyny. Can't you just admit you are not interested/don't get it for the moment and go somewhere else ?
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > The atmosphere is becoming as bad as reddit regarding misogyny. As long as I've been on HN, it's been a pretty misogynist place but yeah, it's definitely getting more toxic.
- lindajxie 9y ago
  Thanks for the support! A lot of negative comments here..
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
lalalander 9y ago
Is it just me or do others out there also get angry when people refer to "crytocurrency" as "crypto"? I know perhaps in their circles it's a handy abbreviated word for "cryptocurrency", which admittedly is a mouthful, but this just makes me angry that they would conflate "crypto" (upon which the whole basis of the modern internet is built on), with a form of currency that people have no idea about and are just mindlessly speculating on. Perhaps it's because I've taken some classes on cryptography and understand how beautiful a subject it is, that I find it demeaning for people to use "crypto" to mean "cryptocurrency".
- qbrass 9y ago
  I wish the whole cryptocurrency trend would die just so they quit saying it.
- lindajxie 9y ago
  "Crypto" has been used as the abbreviation in the space but note taken and will refer to "cryptocurrency" in future posts to not conflate the two.
AmIFirstToThink 9y ago
The humanities professor would be very proud. A+ grade work here. Once you are empowered to use the sexism lens by your professor, life becomes uncomplicated. Ready answers available to any question at hand. "Why did this happen, of course, because of my identity." This is almost like religion or cult with all the answers. The similarities are overwhelming.

19 points by imartin2k 9y ago

Oh yet again another SJW crybaby piece. Stop getting offended. The tech and the crypto world is dominated by men for biological and historic reasons (Read James Damres pro-diversity Google memo and its sources). So obviously they are likely to think a women is +1 at a event. That does not make them evil white men who hate you. How about you stand up proudly and impress them with your crypto knowledge instead of this SJW BS?

Id15eba6u 9y ago

Sorry for the angry rant and I know this doesn't follow the general opinion of HN. But who cares. Why is it important to write an article of women in [Insert X]. Their gender is not important, and quite frankly demeaning of their efforts to further the field. Try to stray away from ad hominem

antirez 9y ago
You can easily restate the whole blog post and include other categories that are often victims of the same behaviors, because of physical differences, gender, nationality, and so forth. Yes, focusing just on women is not optimal IMHO because this also happens to other persons that should be defended as well, however it makes sense to remark that women are a "notable" category of discrimination. Also for the problems exposed in this blog post, I think the author really nailed it, and certain things are women-specific, like focusing and making a comment on the beauty instead of content, and also this eye contact thing. But in general it should always be remembered that the same happens to other categories.
- lindajxie 9y ago
  Absolutely, I included in the post that gender was only one aspect of diversity that I was focusing on in the post but should have made that more clear.

antirez 9y ago

"introduces himself to the men in a group but ignores the women" A truly terrible thing is that I see this happening even in other contexts that have nothing to do with work. Sometimes women are just ignored for the first part of the conversation, or men will just look at other men when saying something. I hate it, it's deeply offensive, however the cool thing is that it takes just a single person to change the shape of the conversation and include everybody. P.S. the same thing is observed often with teenagers as well, which is equally disgusting.

hueving 9y ago
>I hate it, it's deeply offensive Deeply offensive, really? You must be exhausted from being so deeply offended all of the time. It's hyperbolic language like this that is really divisive because it makes people defensive when you're putting their actions in the same category of murders and violence (the "deeply offensive" category).
- imartin2k 9y ago
  The "offensive" attribute aside (which I also have issues with in many contexts), doesn't antirez have a point?
  - Pica_soO 9y ago
    Social terror until everyone is on his/her toes and the resources are redistributed not according to achievement/risk&reward - but how high you are on the ladder in the new church of social progression? Is there a way to opt out of your version of society?
  - belorn 9y ago
    In order for antirez to have a point, let assume we built an experimental environment with cameras to observe how people behave. Let say we want to observe how eye contact is being made, in which order, and to whom and at what rate when a test person enters a group to introduce themselves. Variables we adjust are among things like hight, age, gender of test subject, gender distribution of the test group, appearance of strength, social economical status signals, gait, posture, and olfaction. Then we take a base line, and compare that to when we change a single variable. The question to be answered is: which variable has no effect, which variable has biggest effect, and what is the underlying reason when an variable has an effect.

Kiro 9y ago

> introduces himself to the men in a group but ignores the women > makes eye contact with the men while speaking and ignores the women I'm guilty of this but it's because I'm nervous about interacting with women in general.

antirez 9y ago
That's a good point: some people do it not for discrimination but for other problems. Another variation of what you say is "I'm guilty of this because I'm nervous about engaging in conversations with the woman of another person". And so forth. However with a dedicated effort you can fix this if you recognize is not what you want to do.
- kaybe 9y ago
  I'm not sure if I get your viewpoint right. Considering a woman to be of another person and thus off-limits for talking is already quite sexist and offensive in the West. Maybe that's not what you're trying to say? (In this vein, everyone is sexist and discriminatory and we just have to work with it, so this is not supposed to pass judgement on the person doing it, just the idea. You're not your ideas.)
  - antirez 9y ago
    Hello, I can speak for Sicily, and here this mechanism can work both sides, simply there are people that avoid to engage too much with the mate of another person, regardless of the sex. While I also think this is unacceptable, at least for my cultural background and my values, I think it is still a simpler to correct and more acceptable thing compared to not making eye contact or speaking with a woman because of not giving her the same importance of the other men. So yes, anyway even not engaging with a person because of its sentimental status with other persons you do not want to upset is terrible, but at least is not so directly sexism.
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
Doubly so because there's strong punishments (being kicked out due to violating the CoC / making people feel uncomfortable, publicly shamed on twitter / blogs, etc) if you say the wrong thing. Not engaging at all is the safest course of action.

PKop 9y ago

It’s getting obvious now the scam faux outrage these people are pulling isn’t it? I think it’s transparent more so in this instance because... “the crypto currency industry” if that’s even really such a thing, started like yesterday. And has everyone not been beat over the head with gender bias this, misogyny that.. to an extant that were not gonna buy it this time? Who are these oppressive men running the decentralized crypto industry holding women back? And from what exactly... buying bitcoin? Running a mining rig? Pretty sure it’s an open market and women’s fiat is as good as men’s. Oh.. oh people didn’t talk to you at “crypto currency events”. Ohh... you want men to pay for subsidized tickets. I see. Does anyone read that blog and, gender aside, feel like that’s someone you’d enjoy hanging out with? Didn’t think so...

justmyself 9y ago
My experience so far with women in cryptocurrency as someone who attends quite a few meetups: The Beginner - Doesn't know much about cryptocurrency or technology in general, wants to learn about it for various reasons. There are men who fall into this category of course. I usually enjoy talking to these people. The Enthusiast - Knowledgeable and experienced in cryptocurrency topics. Fun to talk to. The Feminist - Might know something about cryptocurrency, but all she seems to do is plug the various "women in cryptocurrency" groups around the city. Rarely contributes to the conversation. Writes whiny blog/Twitter posts like this one. I think everyone is getting tired of this browbeating.
- lindajxie 9y ago
  I can write blog posts like this one and be knowledgeable and experienced in cryptocurrency topics. Feel free to check out some of my other Medium posts https://medium.com/@linda.xie/ https://medium.com/@linda.xie/
lindajxie 9y ago
No, she doesn't seem fun. You however seem like a blast to hang out with :)

tomp 9y ago

> makes eye contact with the men while speaking and ignores the women Maybe they want to avoid accusations of flirting, being a creep and/or sexual accusations? Wouldn't surprise me, in this atmosphere...

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
zimpenfish 9y ago
What atmosphere? I can look around right now and see 10+ male-female conversations happening with eye contact and no accusations of flirting, being a creep, etc.
- Pica_soO 9y ago
  sure you are in tech?

staticelf 9y ago

People today get upset about fucking everything. Lets break the points down, shall we? > introduces himself to the men in a group but ignores the women Just bad behavior. Hard to say anything else about such a general claim. I can't say I share this experience. > makes eye contact with the men while speaking and ignores the women Well if you make eye contact with women today, some get offended so easily that they write blog posts and even accuse men of being creeps. If we don't, obviously we do not respect you. > asks a woman if she is a plus one at the event acts surprised to discover a woman knows about cryptocurrencies Not weird at all, how many women have you met that knows a lot about cryptocurrencies? Seriously, this is just statistics. Of course people are going to be surprised of this. It's like being mad about a person acting suprised in learning that another person never have taken a car ride. > comments on the woman’s appearance rather than what she is saying Most men are attracted to women in general, so unless this is in a moment that is highly unprofessional I am not surprised. However, I have pretty much never witnessed this except on psuedo-anonymous places like comment sections on internet, never IRL in a professional context. Personally, I follow people because what they do / what they have to say. I also believe most men do that. I am very tired of feminism and this constant nagging. In fact, it is my experience that women follow and judges people a lot more based on their looks and not what they actually have to say.

watwut 9y ago
"Not weird at all, how many women have you met that knows a lot about cryptocurrencies?" Overwhelming majority of men don't know about cryptocurrencies either. It is only people who go to tech events who do. Of people who go to meetups and such, I haven't seen any +1 of any gender. The assumption that if you went to tech event then you know about tech seems safe for anyone. And dunno, going meta offended over someone expressing that yep, this makes women questioning whether they are treated equally behind back is, well, being special snowflake too. You just explained to me what for construct is instead of reacting to my proposal seriously, do you want me to pretend I think I am treated equally? I know I am not, you know I am not (because statistics), so why expectation to pretend otherwise? It is just a lie.
- staticelf 9y ago

foepys 9y ago

The blog post is not about cryptography but crypto currencies. This should be mentioned in the title.

jolux 9y ago

front page article, loaded with comments opposing its position with vitriol. HN as ever.

watwut 9y ago
I mean, there is one comment that disagrees? As much as I disagree with that one, calling it vitriol is an overstatement. And one that claims bitcoins are scam which is attack on bitcoins not on women?
- jolux 9y ago
  One comment? The only positive one I saw was antirez's at the time I wrote this, and as of now the top comment calls it "scam faux outrage," the reply to which insinuates that this person is not worth listening to on this subject and/or is less experienced because they're a feminist, accusing feminists of "browbeating." The second comment from the top is your typical "kids these days" trope about snowflakes and says they're "very tired of feminism." Further down people imply you can't talk to women anymore because you'll be accused of harassment for no reason ("Wouldn't surprise me, in this atmosphere..."), dismissively ask why this needs to be discussed, blame the humanities for killing America with the cult of identity politics, claim all powerful women in tech are frauds, bemoaning this being "another SJW crybaby piece," and finally, above that one, someone who noticed the same thing I did ("As for other comments, I am really annoyed that mostly people come just here to complain that such article exists, and take all the space.") and someone who agrees with them.

ousta 9y ago

the main problem in the crypto or tech industry is not the misogyny it is the fact that the few women that have public visibility and power are scammers or frauds at best, just look at marissa mayer, ellen pao, Elizabeth holmes and now for crypto just look at paragon coin, google the ceo, breaking eggs on her half naked body in a tesla car on a clip and taking selfies in front of a pile of cash to promote her ICO. When women will stop blame men and stop idolizing a woman in tech just because she is a woman and not because she is doing great things (and there are legions of women in tech with no public exposure doing that) then we will move forward.

dpc_pw 9y ago
A counter-argument: majority of visible anything in cryptofin is a fraud, or shady at best.

rogerrabbit 9y ago

Thanks for the article ! I enjoy reading testimonies about misogyny in science and tech industry as it gives interesting insights on what concrete problems I can address. As for other comments, I am really annoyed that mostly people come just here to complain that such article exists, and take all the space. Just drop it ! The atmosphere is becoming as bad as reddit regarding misogyny. Can't you just admit you are not interested/don't get it for the moment and go somewhere else ?

zimpenfish 9y ago
> The atmosphere is becoming as bad as reddit regarding misogyny. As long as I've been on HN, it's been a pretty misogynist place but yeah, it's definitely getting more toxic.
lindajxie 9y ago
Thanks for the support! A lot of negative comments here..

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

lalalander 9y ago

Is it just me or do others out there also get angry when people refer to "crytocurrency" as "crypto"? I know perhaps in their circles it's a handy abbreviated word for "cryptocurrency", which admittedly is a mouthful, but this just makes me angry that they would conflate "crypto" (upon which the whole basis of the modern internet is built on), with a form of currency that people have no idea about and are just mindlessly speculating on. Perhaps it's because I've taken some classes on cryptography and understand how beautiful a subject it is, that I find it demeaning for people to use "crypto" to mean "cryptocurrency".

qbrass 9y ago
I wish the whole cryptocurrency trend would die just so they quit saying it.
lindajxie 9y ago
"Crypto" has been used as the abbreviation in the space but note taken and will refer to "cryptocurrency" in future posts to not conflate the two.

AmIFirstToThink 9y ago

The humanities professor would be very proud. A+ grade work here. Once you are empowered to use the sexism lens by your professor, life becomes uncomplicated. Ready answers available to any question at hand. "Why did this happen, of course, because of my identity." This is almost like religion or cult with all the answers. The similarities are overwhelming.