4 ms·

More privileges? Madrid has a higher gdp per capita but a lower gpd (fewer people), despite of having a lower gdp they contribute with twice the money: http://m

by lacaza 9y ago

More privileges? Madrid has a higher gdp per capita but a lower gpd (fewer people), despite of having a lower gdp they contribute with twice the money: http://m.eldiario.es/politica/Madrid-deficit-fiscal-millones-Cataluna_0_284521745.html http://m.eldiario.es/politica/Madrid-deficit-fiscal-millones... (Leftist source) What makes me think about the real percentage of people that voted is not any newspaper but things like this: https://twitter.com/key_opinions/status/914529367543382016 https://twitter.com/key_opinions/status/914529367543382016 https://twitter.com/juanmalamet/status/914448261964029957 https://twitter.com/juanmalamet/status/914448261964029957 https://twitter.com/yuyudecai/status/914577981812674566 https://twitter.com/yuyudecai/status/914577981812674566 And finally, I'm very sorry if I offended you, I'm just saying that the difference between someone from Madrid and someone from Barcelona es less than someone from Madrid and Cadiz or many other cities. There is no special identity nor history compared to other regions. Your claiming the crown of Aragon, which was pretty much half of Spain... I don't think you could claim independence just because you belonged to something else (as every region before the formation of Spain) in the past... The only real argument is to say: a lot of people want it. I stated my points on that in my comment.

farresito 9y ago
(I did not downvote you, for the record) Don't feel bad for offending me. I have been getting easily triggered quite a bit lately due to the lack of objectiveness of a lot of the Spanish media (you could say the same about Catalan media). I shouldn't really talk in these threads to be honest. It's true that Madrid is richer, but they also have, for example, the privilege of being the capital of Spain, which naturally helps with their economy. Regarding the multiple votes, I could also add that other people tried[1] voting twice and weren't allowed. That is not to say that it wasn't possible at certain places, but I think that stating that less than 15% of the real population voted when the released data said that more than two million IDs were registered electronically is a bit ingenuous. Furthermore, TVE, the Spanish national TV channels, manipulated data and were really biased, as stated by multiple journalists working there[2]. [1] https://twitter.com/orioldebalanzo/status/914526879582998528 https://twitter.com/orioldebalanzo/status/914526879582998528. [2] https://twitter.com/vanesabenedicto/status/914481362287185925 https://twitter.com/vanesabenedicto/status/91448136228718592...
- lacaza 9y ago
  I agree with you on the media being biased (by both sides). But I don't think this should be about the numbers. I only stated that percentage to make clear the point that there was no census and multiple ways to hack the polls... In any case, my arguments apply wether that percentage is 15 or 50. Also, I believe we shouldn't differentiate between regions that could have the privilege of voting and regions who wouldn't have it (specially when the reasons aren't solid) , it just intensifies the feeling of false superiority and xenophobia between different populations. I could agree on the possibility of self determination for any region (or city), but I'd like people to think a little bit more about what that could mean in the long term and if that's something good for the world overall. Sorry again if I was too arrogant, I fully respect your love for your hometown and your people.
  - farresito 9y ago
    I think a lot of non-Catalans have the perception (perhaps portrayed by the media) that we dislike Spain or the people, but frankly, the big issue is that we are fed up with the government (and certain branches of the govt.), probably like a large amount of Spaniards, with the difference being that we are able to express it through the pro-independence movement, which has always existed, though admittedly it had never been close to as strong as it is nowadays, and which allows us to put much more pressure into the govt. for changes. There is no hate at all; we just want the best for our land, like everyone. It's good that parties like Podemos have been growing, even if one doesn't feel identified with their ideals, because it shows that people are fed up with the situation. Thank you for the kind words. Likewise to you <3.

by lacaza 9y ago

farresito 9y ago

(I did not downvote you, for the record) Don't feel bad for offending me. I have been getting easily triggered quite a bit lately due to the lack of objectiveness of a lot of the Spanish media (you could say the same about Catalan media). I shouldn't really talk in these threads to be honest. It's true that Madrid is richer, but they also have, for example, the privilege of being the capital of Spain, which naturally helps with their economy. Regarding the multiple votes, I could also add that other people tried[1] voting twice and weren't allowed. That is not to say that it wasn't possible at certain places, but I think that stating that less than 15% of the real population voted when the released data said that more than two million IDs were registered electronically is a bit ingenuous. Furthermore, TVE, the Spanish national TV channels, manipulated data and were really biased, as stated by multiple journalists working there[2]. [1] https://twitter.com/orioldebalanzo/status/914526879582998528 https://twitter.com/orioldebalanzo/status/914526879582998528. [2] https://twitter.com/vanesabenedicto/status/914481362287185925 https://twitter.com/vanesabenedicto/status/91448136228718592...

lacaza 9y ago
I agree with you on the media being biased (by both sides). But I don't think this should be about the numbers. I only stated that percentage to make clear the point that there was no census and multiple ways to hack the polls... In any case, my arguments apply wether that percentage is 15 or 50. Also, I believe we shouldn't differentiate between regions that could have the privilege of voting and regions who wouldn't have it (specially when the reasons aren't solid) , it just intensifies the feeling of false superiority and xenophobia between different populations. I could agree on the possibility of self determination for any region (or city), but I'd like people to think a little bit more about what that could mean in the long term and if that's something good for the world overall. Sorry again if I was too arrogant, I fully respect your love for your hometown and your people.
- farresito 9y ago
  I think a lot of non-Catalans have the perception (perhaps portrayed by the media) that we dislike Spain or the people, but frankly, the big issue is that we are fed up with the government (and certain branches of the govt.), probably like a large amount of Spaniards, with the difference being that we are able to express it through the pro-independence movement, which has always existed, though admittedly it had never been close to as strong as it is nowadays, and which allows us to put much more pressure into the govt. for changes. There is no hate at all; we just want the best for our land, like everyone. It's good that parties like Podemos have been growing, even if one doesn't feel identified with their ideals, because it shows that people are fed up with the situation. Thank you for the kind words. Likewise to you <3.