3 ms·

As I understand there wasn't even a 'no' campaign and the whole thing was created and run by the 'yes' campaign. Surprising they didn't get nearer 100% in those

As I understand there wasn't even a 'no' campaign and the whole thing was created and run by the 'yes' campaign. Surprising they didn't get nearer 100% in those circumstances. (Police brutality by the Madrid government is a separate resigning issue.)

gonvaled 9y ago
There was no yes campaign because the non-independentists were against the right to vote. Nevertheless, turnout has been quite high.
- dreamfactored 9y ago
  A little out of date now on point 9 but otherwise not unreasonable as far as I can see - https://medium.com/@tripu/referendum-e53331ddf841 https://medium.com/@tripu/referendum-e53331ddf841
  - gonvaled 9y ago
    Not answering point by point, but this is just a referendum in 40 years, overwhelmingly wanted by catalans, and just about moving borders, not sterilising anybody. And yes, police has been sent.
    - tripu 9y ago
      I don't think the "referendum" was "overwhelmingly wanted by catalans"; what is your source? "Just about moving borders" makes it sound as if that were a trivial change. It would be huge for Spain.
  - JCzynski 9y ago
    His first four claims (plus #11) are just wrong. He's not even addressing the points, let alone rebutting them.
    - tripu 9y ago
      How so? I tried to debunk all those facile arguments in favour of the "referendum". #11: do you think then that the "referendum" was properly organised, with enough accountability and transparency, and no meddling? Do you trust the results announced by the Catalan government?
mabbo 9y ago
The "no" campaign was mostly the Spanish government arresting people and seizing ballot boxes. They weren't interested in convincing people to say "no", they were working to make sure they couldn't say "yes".
- dreamfactored 9y ago
  If only one side participates, the match is called off - you don't get to kick the ball into an empty goal and call yourself the league champion, however much you want to play. (FWIW I think the Spanish government have behaved like complete shits and should resign, and the independence movement heads are mostly a mix of opportunists and useful idiots, already trading off the blood of well-intentioned and reasonable Catalans, of whom I know many.)
  - gonvaled 9y ago
    The catalan government is full of opportunists - like every government - rightly implementing the wishes of the overwhelming majority of catalans: a democratic referendum.
    - dreamfactored 9y ago
      Until this week at least opinion was split in Catalonia with no supermajority on either side. Catalonia is very proud of its high standards of education - hopefully they don't want to look as completely stupid as the British now do after Brexit.
      - gonvaled 9y ago
        When I say "overwhelmingly" I refer to the desire to vote, not to the opinion that people hold. There is probably no supermajority, but we are not allowed to know about it since voting seems to be illegal. All we have is 40% turnout with 90% yes. We will have to do with that.
      - JCzynski 9y ago
        85% of Catalans wanted the vote to happen.

gonvaled 9y ago

There was no yes campaign because the non-independentists were against the right to vote. Nevertheless, turnout has been quite high.

dreamfactored 9y ago
A little out of date now on point 9 but otherwise not unreasonable as far as I can see - https://medium.com/@tripu/referendum-e53331ddf841 https://medium.com/@tripu/referendum-e53331ddf841
- gonvaled 9y ago
  Not answering point by point, but this is just a referendum in 40 years, overwhelmingly wanted by catalans, and just about moving borders, not sterilising anybody. And yes, police has been sent.
  - tripu 9y ago
    I don't think the "referendum" was "overwhelmingly wanted by catalans"; what is your source? "Just about moving borders" makes it sound as if that were a trivial change. It would be huge for Spain.
- JCzynski 9y ago
  His first four claims (plus #11) are just wrong. He's not even addressing the points, let alone rebutting them.
  - tripu 9y ago
    How so? I tried to debunk all those facile arguments in favour of the "referendum". #11: do you think then that the "referendum" was properly organised, with enough accountability and transparency, and no meddling? Do you trust the results announced by the Catalan government?

mabbo 9y ago

The "no" campaign was mostly the Spanish government arresting people and seizing ballot boxes. They weren't interested in convincing people to say "no", they were working to make sure they couldn't say "yes".

dreamfactored 9y ago
If only one side participates, the match is called off - you don't get to kick the ball into an empty goal and call yourself the league champion, however much you want to play. (FWIW I think the Spanish government have behaved like complete shits and should resign, and the independence movement heads are mostly a mix of opportunists and useful idiots, already trading off the blood of well-intentioned and reasonable Catalans, of whom I know many.)
- gonvaled 9y ago
  The catalan government is full of opportunists - like every government - rightly implementing the wishes of the overwhelming majority of catalans: a democratic referendum.
  - dreamfactored 9y ago
    Until this week at least opinion was split in Catalonia with no supermajority on either side. Catalonia is very proud of its high standards of education - hopefully they don't want to look as completely stupid as the British now do after Brexit.
    - gonvaled 9y ago
      When I say "overwhelmingly" I refer to the desire to vote, not to the opinion that people hold. There is probably no supermajority, but we are not allowed to know about it since voting seems to be illegal. All we have is 40% turnout with 90% yes. We will have to do with that.
    - JCzynski 9y ago
      85% of Catalans wanted the vote to happen.