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The Spanish government has succeeded in ruining the referendum. Law abiding citizens who respect the Spanish government clearly stayed home and did not particip

The Spanish government has succeeded in ruining the referendum. Law abiding citizens who respect the Spanish government clearly stayed home and did not participate in the illegal vote. Anyone who is claiming an electoral victory for the independence camp is delusional. The level of support for independence is nowhere near 90%, which was the final tally. An illegal referendum that half the population either chose to or was forced to boycott does not have any legitimacy.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
centimeter 9y ago
So you’re saying that the Spanish government's violent authoritarian tactics backfired? Whoops, sucks for them. Maybe if they wanted all their supporters to turn out they shouldn’t have been violently beating and shooting people at the polling stations. If the Spanish have any doubt as to the fact that the vast majority of Catalonians want to leave Spain, they can feel free to allow people to hold a referendum without attacking them this time.
- marcoperaza 9y ago
  No, I'm saying they got exactly what they wanted: the referendum is less meaningful than an online opinion poll.
toyg 9y ago
This would have happened without the crackdown as well. That’s why a referendum often requires a quorum of voters: if the majority of people think it’s pointless, they don’t show up and the referendum is void. But with the crackdown, now independentists can claim a moral victory as well as a vindication of their reasons, and they can even claim the missing voters could have been for them, because cleary it was unsafe for most people to show up regardless of political inclination. Good job, Spanish government, you’ve just strengthened your enemies. This was phase 3 of the classic Gandhi quote.
TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> An illegal referendum that half the population either chose to or was forced to boycott does not have any legitimacy I see it differently. I see a government suppressing the will of the people, then using low turnout due to government intimidation as a way to delegitimize the vote. There wouldn't even be a vote if a massive amount of people didn't disagree with the direction that their government was forcing them in. If people can't separate peacefully, there will be many who try to do so violently.
- return0 9y ago
  suppressing the will of SOME people tbh, but yeah their handling of it was terrible and will only embolden the separatists.
sbmassey 9y ago
Given the widespread images of riot police and blood spattered citizens for nothing more than trying to vote, I'd put it down as a strong political victory for the independence movement.
gonvaled 9y ago
The spanish government could have chosen to let all voters participate, by creating the right framework for a once-in-forty-years popular poll.
vvpan 9y ago
What's an "illegal" vote?
- marcoperaza 9y ago
  The Spanish government and courts said that it was illegal for the Catalan regional government to run this referendum. That's what makes it illegal. You may very well feel that is morally wrong, but that has no bearing on legality.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

centimeter 9y ago

So you’re saying that the Spanish government's violent authoritarian tactics backfired? Whoops, sucks for them. Maybe if they wanted all their supporters to turn out they shouldn’t have been violently beating and shooting people at the polling stations. If the Spanish have any doubt as to the fact that the vast majority of Catalonians want to leave Spain, they can feel free to allow people to hold a referendum without attacking them this time.

marcoperaza 9y ago
No, I'm saying they got exactly what they wanted: the referendum is less meaningful than an online opinion poll.

toyg 9y ago

This would have happened without the crackdown as well. That’s why a referendum often requires a quorum of voters: if the majority of people think it’s pointless, they don’t show up and the referendum is void. But with the crackdown, now independentists can claim a moral victory as well as a vindication of their reasons, and they can even claim the missing voters could have been for them, because cleary it was unsafe for most people to show up regardless of political inclination. Good job, Spanish government, you’ve just strengthened your enemies. This was phase 3 of the classic Gandhi quote.

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago

> An illegal referendum that half the population either chose to or was forced to boycott does not have any legitimacy I see it differently. I see a government suppressing the will of the people, then using low turnout due to government intimidation as a way to delegitimize the vote. There wouldn't even be a vote if a massive amount of people didn't disagree with the direction that their government was forcing them in. If people can't separate peacefully, there will be many who try to do so violently.

return0 9y ago
suppressing the will of SOME people tbh, but yeah their handling of it was terrible and will only embolden the separatists.

sbmassey 9y ago

Given the widespread images of riot police and blood spattered citizens for nothing more than trying to vote, I'd put it down as a strong political victory for the independence movement.

gonvaled 9y ago

The spanish government could have chosen to let all voters participate, by creating the right framework for a once-in-forty-years popular poll.

vvpan 9y ago

What's an "illegal" vote?

marcoperaza 9y ago
The Spanish government and courts said that it was illegal for the Catalan regional government to run this referendum. That's what makes it illegal. You may very well feel that is morally wrong, but that has no bearing on legality.