6 ms·

Quite certainly, becoming a professor is not "first and foremost" what PhD leads to (nor is it what many people do it for). It is certainly not my experience.

Quite certainly, becoming a professor is not "first and foremost" what PhD leads to (nor is it what many people do it for). It is certainly not my experience. I am a PhD student and since the very beginning my mentors (program directors, my PhD advisor, committee members) have been pretty clear about future prospects: "the opportunities in industry are such and such (compared to the opportunities for BS and MS)", "postdoc positions have those requirements", "the chances for getting a permanent research/teaching position is so and so". While there are people who are dishonest with their students, it is borderline offensive to lump them up with all the rest. All the people I have worked with have been honest about job prospects and have worked hard to give me the best tools to work in those jobs.

mikebenfield 9y ago
I think this varies somewhat by field, but I promise you, in many fields essentially the only reason to get a PhD is for a career in academia. The idea of a someone in graduate school not aspiring to become a professor still sounds odd to me. And while I never had anyone outright lie to me or tell me job prospects were great, there were also few people who gave me a really clear picture of just how bad they were.
- Bjartr 9y ago
  Depending on field, private sector R&D positions can require PhDs
- steev 9y ago
  Certainly it varies by field, I don't know a whole lot of English PhDs in industry, but are a multitude of industry jobs require STEM PhDs (e.g, research positions, quant positions in finance, etc.). Whether you agree those positions should require a PhD is a separate argument.
- anon946 9y ago
  I'd say it varies more than somewhat, but rather a lot, by field (and maybe by school).
  - spaceseaman 9y ago
    And even advisor - some have clear paths directly into industry jobs.
- lokimedes 9y ago
  I hope that part of being accepted into a PhD programme involves the ability to realize that there’s not much room at the top. Personally I loved my PhD experience even when I knew that the race to tenure was not for me. In many ways the reward of a science PhD on the jobmarket is large. At my current company we are treated as superstars among both engineers and management, and there is plenty of ways to make use of whatever lessons learned. (Disclosure: experimental particle physicist working in the European defense industry).
- ThePadawan 9y ago
  On the other hand, there are fields where the opposite holds. A family member studied Social Sciences, and the non-academia job situation (in journalism, museums, etc.) is pretty much "PhD or bust".
limbicsystem 9y ago
Right. I'm the Chair of a (neuroscience and psychology) departmental graduate school and I also sometimes sit in on departmental PhD 'scholarship' interviews. One of the questions we ask is 'Given that your chances of gaining a job in academia are only about 1 in 8, what do you think you will do when you finish graduate school?'. Then, when they arrive, we show them, a discuss, a version of this picture http://thegradstudentway.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/PhD-science-careers.png http://thegradstudentway.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02... during the induction lecture on their first day. They are all still there on day 2. I like to think they are smart enough to know what they are doing and that the only people who are still writing phd 'glut' articles like this are those whose ideas about graduate training were formed a few decades ago.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  It's laudable that the likely end results are presented so clearly and early. Have you ever done a survey immediately afterwards to see how many students goals align with the likely outcomes? It seems like if a student is in that position where they were very successful at being a student for the prior 16 years and succeeded at getting into your graduate school that they might think they are the 1 in 8 - maybe all eight of them for a given eight.
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    Is it? One way to recruit a certain kind of soldier is to build up the notion of “elite” and then ask, “are you up to it?” Young people often leap at that, and you can always say you told them it would be tough.
    - stevenwoo 9y ago
      I don't know. It does seem that law schools don't do this based on the numerous post graduation interview/surveys, where if memory serves if one doesn't get admitted to a top 20 school or so one might want to rethink a legal education as one's avenue to financial success.
- 9y ago
cucuuc 9y ago
A PhD is literally )as in that’s what the abbreviation stands for ) a license to teach. It’s origins are exactly in training people to pass the torch of knowledge. Look at the Greats, or even professors until the 50s, they only had at most 6 grad students their entire career. Many modern professors have as many students a year.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  Sources for any of this?
- krastanov 9y ago
  Plenty has changed since the word was created. Similarly, philosophy used to mean all of science which is certainly not the case today. In other words, PhD does not mean "a license to teach" and it has not for at least a century. I am not saying all these changes are for the good, but the premise in your comment is not true.

mikebenfield 9y ago

I think this varies somewhat by field, but I promise you, in many fields essentially the only reason to get a PhD is for a career in academia. The idea of a someone in graduate school not aspiring to become a professor still sounds odd to me. And while I never had anyone outright lie to me or tell me job prospects were great, there were also few people who gave me a really clear picture of just how bad they were.

Bjartr 9y ago
Depending on field, private sector R&D positions can require PhDs
steev 9y ago
Certainly it varies by field, I don't know a whole lot of English PhDs in industry, but are a multitude of industry jobs require STEM PhDs (e.g, research positions, quant positions in finance, etc.). Whether you agree those positions should require a PhD is a separate argument.
anon946 9y ago
I'd say it varies more than somewhat, but rather a lot, by field (and maybe by school).
- spaceseaman 9y ago
  And even advisor - some have clear paths directly into industry jobs.
lokimedes 9y ago
I hope that part of being accepted into a PhD programme involves the ability to realize that there’s not much room at the top. Personally I loved my PhD experience even when I knew that the race to tenure was not for me. In many ways the reward of a science PhD on the jobmarket is large. At my current company we are treated as superstars among both engineers and management, and there is plenty of ways to make use of whatever lessons learned. (Disclosure: experimental particle physicist working in the European defense industry).
ThePadawan 9y ago
On the other hand, there are fields where the opposite holds. A family member studied Social Sciences, and the non-academia job situation (in journalism, museums, etc.) is pretty much "PhD or bust".

limbicsystem 9y ago

Right. I'm the Chair of a (neuroscience and psychology) departmental graduate school and I also sometimes sit in on departmental PhD 'scholarship' interviews. One of the questions we ask is 'Given that your chances of gaining a job in academia are only about 1 in 8, what do you think you will do when you finish graduate school?'. Then, when they arrive, we show them, a discuss, a version of this picture http://thegradstudentway.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/PhD-science-careers.png http://thegradstudentway.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02... during the induction lecture on their first day. They are all still there on day 2. I like to think they are smart enough to know what they are doing and that the only people who are still writing phd 'glut' articles like this are those whose ideas about graduate training were formed a few decades ago.

stevenwoo 9y ago
It's laudable that the likely end results are presented so clearly and early. Have you ever done a survey immediately afterwards to see how many students goals align with the likely outcomes? It seems like if a student is in that position where they were very successful at being a student for the prior 16 years and succeeded at getting into your graduate school that they might think they are the 1 in 8 - maybe all eight of them for a given eight.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Is it? One way to recruit a certain kind of soldier is to build up the notion of “elite” and then ask, “are you up to it?” Young people often leap at that, and you can always say you told them it would be tough.
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    I don't know. It does seem that law schools don't do this based on the numerous post graduation interview/surveys, where if memory serves if one doesn't get admitted to a top 20 school or so one might want to rethink a legal education as one's avenue to financial success.
9y ago

cucuuc 9y ago

A PhD is literally )as in that’s what the abbreviation stands for ) a license to teach. It’s origins are exactly in training people to pass the torch of knowledge. Look at the Greats, or even professors until the 50s, they only had at most 6 grad students their entire career. Many modern professors have as many students a year.

dredmorbius 9y ago
Sources for any of this?
krastanov 9y ago
Plenty has changed since the word was created. Similarly, philosophy used to mean all of science which is certainly not the case today. In other words, PhD does not mean "a license to teach" and it has not for at least a century. I am not saying all these changes are for the good, but the premise in your comment is not true.