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A rather ignorant view of history. Lookup US obscenity law and case history. Child pornography is an easy example, 80 years ago it was any pornography, or even

A rather ignorant view of history. Lookup US obscenity law and case history. Child pornography is an easy example, 80 years ago it was any pornography, or even obscene literature, joyces Ulysses was once banned. On general speech has only gotten freer, to think we now are at the precipe and speech won't be even freer is naive, provincial, and arrogant. Interacial kissing was once provocative, sodomy illegal as recently as 2003, and now depictions of transexuals is edgy. That anyone thinks its okay to limit speech, the midwife of thought -- its a debate going back to the State sanctioned murder of Socrates for 'corrupting the youth', 'making the weaker argument the stronger', and 'profaning the gods' -- its sad hilarious but those we are educated know such views are on the wrong side of history even if good people like Socrates are murdered along the way. Let's see if I even share my speech here, I'm regularly shadow banned for no reason.

slg 9y ago
This is exactly the type of belief I was talking about in my last sentence. All speech is not equal. That may be a hard truth for some to accept, but it is the truth. Once your speech starts to infringe on the rights of others it is no longer deserving of protection. Your rights are not more important than the rights of your fellow citizens. I don't understand why libertarians don't agree with that. I thought the whole point of the government was to protect the rights of the individual.
- louithethrid 9y ago
  And deep down everyone has that feeling, that his gut feelings should be the judge of that. The problem starts, when people project there wish to control the lives of others upon some vague enough person as power.
- hitekker 9y ago
  For most of its followers, Libertarianism is a means to an end, a label that can be shed and worn repeatedly, a justification rather a-way-of-life. Other People need the help of government? They should stop being lazy and put their faith in the free market. My folks need government help? Well we deserve it, give it to us, right now, don’t delay, don’t you have a heart? Compared to the members of communist, conservative and other demanding and identity-integral idealogies, libertarians are far smaller in number and altogether weaker as an independant political force.
- 13years 9y ago
  >Once your speech starts to infringe on the rights of others it is no longer deserving of protection That is quite a chilling statement. What right do others have to silence speech? A right is not something that can be taken away due to public opinion. Otherwise it is a privilege. The entire foundation of a free society is built on free speech.
  - slg 9y ago
    >That is quite a chilling statement. What right do others have to silence speech? You have the right to silence speech that infringes on your rights. Someone's speech shouldn't be protected if they knowing print lies in order to ruin the career of another individual. Someone's speech shouldn't be protected if they leave a burning cross on the curb outside their black neighbor's house. Someone's speech shouldn't be protected if they are reprinting the published work of another person without permission or fair use. Someone's speech shouldn't be protected if they are threatening violence on another individual. >A right is not something that can be taken away due to public opinion. Otherwise it is a privilege. You don't even have to go back a decade to find that this isn't true. Prop 8 is a perfect example of how a right can be taken away by public opinion. Some people get misled by the Declarations of Independence's whole "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" thing that human rights are some natural phenomena. That has never been true. We bestow these rights on each other because we as a civilization have decided they are the bare minimum that every person should be guaranteed. As human history will show it is a constant struggle to help ensure that is true. >The entire foundation of a free society is built on free speech. By that logic no free society has ever existed before.
    - 13years 9y ago
      >You have the right to silence speech that infringes on your rights. Most of your examples are covered by other laws. Property rights, defamation or such. However, none of this is forbidden as speech. >We bestow these rights on each other This is demonstrated as false because we had these rights before there ever was something we could call government or even a society. When you are born into the world alone as a living being there is nothing to silence you. Freedom did exist before civilization. >By that logic no free society has ever existed before. Status of a free society is not a boolean. The degree to which the society is free is strongly correlated to the degree of free speech within the society.

slg 9y ago

This is exactly the type of belief I was talking about in my last sentence. All speech is not equal. That may be a hard truth for some to accept, but it is the truth. Once your speech starts to infringe on the rights of others it is no longer deserving of protection. Your rights are not more important than the rights of your fellow citizens. I don't understand why libertarians don't agree with that. I thought the whole point of the government was to protect the rights of the individual.

louithethrid 9y ago
And deep down everyone has that feeling, that his gut feelings should be the judge of that. The problem starts, when people project there wish to control the lives of others upon some vague enough person as power.
hitekker 9y ago
For most of its followers, Libertarianism is a means to an end, a label that can be shed and worn repeatedly, a justification rather a-way-of-life. Other People need the help of government? They should stop being lazy and put their faith in the free market. My folks need government help? Well we deserve it, give it to us, right now, don’t delay, don’t you have a heart? Compared to the members of communist, conservative and other demanding and identity-integral idealogies, libertarians are far smaller in number and altogether weaker as an independant political force.
13years 9y ago
>Once your speech starts to infringe on the rights of others it is no longer deserving of protection That is quite a chilling statement. What right do others have to silence speech? A right is not something that can be taken away due to public opinion. Otherwise it is a privilege. The entire foundation of a free society is built on free speech.
- slg 9y ago
  >That is quite a chilling statement. What right do others have to silence speech? You have the right to silence speech that infringes on your rights. Someone's speech shouldn't be protected if they knowing print lies in order to ruin the career of another individual. Someone's speech shouldn't be protected if they leave a burning cross on the curb outside their black neighbor's house. Someone's speech shouldn't be protected if they are reprinting the published work of another person without permission or fair use. Someone's speech shouldn't be protected if they are threatening violence on another individual. >A right is not something that can be taken away due to public opinion. Otherwise it is a privilege. You don't even have to go back a decade to find that this isn't true. Prop 8 is a perfect example of how a right can be taken away by public opinion. Some people get misled by the Declarations of Independence's whole "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" thing that human rights are some natural phenomena. That has never been true. We bestow these rights on each other because we as a civilization have decided they are the bare minimum that every person should be guaranteed. As human history will show it is a constant struggle to help ensure that is true. >The entire foundation of a free society is built on free speech. By that logic no free society has ever existed before.
  - 13years 9y ago
    >You have the right to silence speech that infringes on your rights. Most of your examples are covered by other laws. Property rights, defamation or such. However, none of this is forbidden as speech. >We bestow these rights on each other This is demonstrated as false because we had these rights before there ever was something we could call government or even a society. When you are born into the world alone as a living being there is nothing to silence you. Freedom did exist before civilization. >By that logic no free society has ever existed before. Status of a free society is not a boolean. The degree to which the society is free is strongly correlated to the degree of free speech within the society.