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> I don't need this daily coffee and sugar fix anymore. In the same way, some people just stop being "addicted" to life in general after strong trip. Some of t

> I don't need this daily coffee and sugar fix anymore. In the same way, some people just stop being "addicted" to life in general after strong trip. Some of them decide to commit suicide. Just yesterday, I've been in party and one guy told story of his friend who committed suicide after such trip. The big problem with psychedelics is that you can't predict in which way a trip could change you.

wallace_f 9y ago
Yea, in simple terms it has a multiplier effect on everything you experience. If feelings go bad, they can go really bad and remain that way afterwards. But you commented on suicide. I also have a friend who unfortunately passed this way. Do you have any data on this? From what I have seen, studies have been limited. I had read somewhere on erowid years ago a study where an increase in mental illness and suicide after psychadelic use was positive but less than an increase seen in another study of people who had completed religious quests.
fjsh 9y ago
Which drug? Context matters. Salvia can be a very negative experience and has allegedly caused suicides. DMT is almost a universally euphoric and positive experience although not Ayahausca. I have never heard of anyone committing suicide after either. The big problem with psychedelics is how people spread fear and uncertainty. Try sharing the death statistics for alcohol the next time you share a bottle of wine with a romantic interest.
- ci5er 9y ago
  Salvia is, for me, is quite rough. But I can't imagine it causing suicide. What's the progression/causation there? Or do we just not have enough data to know?
  - dannypgh 9y ago
    It would likely be quite difficult to ethically do such a study. Correlation alone isn't compelling: it could simply be that the underlying reason a significant share of people turn to [insert mind-altering substance here] is underlying emotional suffering, trauma, etc. and if the substance doesn't offer any improvement they end up resorting to suicide.
    - ci5er 9y ago
      Maybe. But based on the 3rd-hand reports I have read (the suicide can't/doesn't report), the self-kill-decision seems more immediate than the realization that the efficacy of the substance wasn't, you know, efficacious.
- tree_of_item 9y ago
  If salvia is very negative for you then you're doing too much. Sadly most people use salvia "extracts" which are almost guaranteed to be far too much to handle. Stick with plain leaf.
hutzlibu 9y ago
"Just yesterday, I've been in party and one guy told story of his friend who committed suicide after such trip." unpleasant theory: maybe in some cases it is even better, that a person just kills himself after a drug-triggered insight - instead of years of drowning everybody around them into their black hole - and still suicide in the end. (or worse, go amok) But sure, I am not saying at all, that this was the case in your story. What I know is, that Psychedelics are no miracles. The "insights" you get, might be also totally wrong and misleading. I see Drugs as "tools" for the mind. You can use them right, or wrong.
- deleted 9y ago
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- deleted 9y ago
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- hhhxyxyy 9y ago
  The main insight is more likely that people like you exist, with your immature attitude/ridiculous theory on suicide. I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common. Take care and aloha.
  - hutzlibu 9y ago
    Those are very good arguments you provide ... It is probably pointless, but to try more arguments, I think the same about you " I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common" The illusionary theory, that every human must be saved at all costs. Only that in reality "by all costs" means very often, that not only one goes down, but also many people around them. I have seen it too often. And in the end, those persons might indeed still breathe, but more like zombies and not really alive . Letting go can be less cruel in the bigger picture.
    - hhhxyxyy 9y ago
      Do you actually have experience with counterculture? Primal instincts based around the idea of dominance prevail as often do in any social hierarchy, and the musings about some type of altruistism surrounding suicide by the commenter to whom I replied reflect this reality. In short, the counterculture movement is plenty infiltrated with immature and often sociopathic mentalities that heartlessly harass sensitive folks who are at their most vulnerable under the influence of psychedelics. This is rarely discussed but is so prevalent, particularly since the age of exposure aligns with immature phases, adolesence in particular. In laymen’s terms, it’s a sport to “fuck with” someone who has a “reaction”. Perhaps it’s the suicide victim realizing that, instead of this idea that they are a defective burden saving society from their own black hole via premature self termination, that they are escaping unwanted membership of a vastly primitive species. I assure you, the mentality of the suicidal is quite the opposite of “conventional wisdom” about being a burden, at least in some cases.

wallace_f 9y ago

Yea, in simple terms it has a multiplier effect on everything you experience. If feelings go bad, they can go really bad and remain that way afterwards. But you commented on suicide. I also have a friend who unfortunately passed this way. Do you have any data on this? From what I have seen, studies have been limited. I had read somewhere on erowid years ago a study where an increase in mental illness and suicide after psychadelic use was positive but less than an increase seen in another study of people who had completed religious quests.

fjsh 9y ago

Which drug? Context matters. Salvia can be a very negative experience and has allegedly caused suicides. DMT is almost a universally euphoric and positive experience although not Ayahausca. I have never heard of anyone committing suicide after either. The big problem with psychedelics is how people spread fear and uncertainty. Try sharing the death statistics for alcohol the next time you share a bottle of wine with a romantic interest.

ci5er 9y ago
Salvia is, for me, is quite rough. But I can't imagine it causing suicide. What's the progression/causation there? Or do we just not have enough data to know?
- dannypgh 9y ago
  It would likely be quite difficult to ethically do such a study. Correlation alone isn't compelling: it could simply be that the underlying reason a significant share of people turn to [insert mind-altering substance here] is underlying emotional suffering, trauma, etc. and if the substance doesn't offer any improvement they end up resorting to suicide.
  - ci5er 9y ago
    Maybe. But based on the 3rd-hand reports I have read (the suicide can't/doesn't report), the self-kill-decision seems more immediate than the realization that the efficacy of the substance wasn't, you know, efficacious.
tree_of_item 9y ago
If salvia is very negative for you then you're doing too much. Sadly most people use salvia "extracts" which are almost guaranteed to be far too much to handle. Stick with plain leaf.

hutzlibu 9y ago

"Just yesterday, I've been in party and one guy told story of his friend who committed suicide after such trip." unpleasant theory: maybe in some cases it is even better, that a person just kills himself after a drug-triggered insight - instead of years of drowning everybody around them into their black hole - and still suicide in the end. (or worse, go amok) But sure, I am not saying at all, that this was the case in your story. What I know is, that Psychedelics are no miracles. The "insights" you get, might be also totally wrong and misleading. I see Drugs as "tools" for the mind. You can use them right, or wrong.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
deleted 9y ago
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hhhxyxyy 9y ago
The main insight is more likely that people like you exist, with your immature attitude/ridiculous theory on suicide. I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common. Take care and aloha.
- hutzlibu 9y ago
  Those are very good arguments you provide ... It is probably pointless, but to try more arguments, I think the same about you " I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common" The illusionary theory, that every human must be saved at all costs. Only that in reality "by all costs" means very often, that not only one goes down, but also many people around them. I have seen it too often. And in the end, those persons might indeed still breathe, but more like zombies and not really alive . Letting go can be less cruel in the bigger picture.
  - hhhxyxyy 9y ago
    Do you actually have experience with counterculture? Primal instincts based around the idea of dominance prevail as often do in any social hierarchy, and the musings about some type of altruistism surrounding suicide by the commenter to whom I replied reflect this reality. In short, the counterculture movement is plenty infiltrated with immature and often sociopathic mentalities that heartlessly harass sensitive folks who are at their most vulnerable under the influence of psychedelics. This is rarely discussed but is so prevalent, particularly since the age of exposure aligns with immature phases, adolesence in particular. In laymen’s terms, it’s a sport to “fuck with” someone who has a “reaction”. Perhaps it’s the suicide victim realizing that, instead of this idea that they are a defective burden saving society from their own black hole via premature self termination, that they are escaping unwanted membership of a vastly primitive species. I assure you, the mentality of the suicidal is quite the opposite of “conventional wisdom” about being a burden, at least in some cases.