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If you allow any region to declare independence then there will be thousands or maybe even more states. Different provinces and regions are united into a countr

If you allow any region to declare independence then there will be thousands or maybe even more states. Different provinces and regions are united into a country because this way they have more military power to defend themselves. When there is a lot of small states it will be easy to conquer them one by one - either by external enemy or by one of those small states. At least this is what happened in the Middle Age.

Aaargh20318 9y ago
> If you allow any region to declare independence then there will be thousands or maybe even more states. You say this like it's a bad thing. > Different provinces and regions are united into a country because this way they have more military power to defend themselves. Exactly. So there are many benefits for people to form larger groups, but please let them decide that for themselves. This kind of negates your first point, if there are obvious benefits then there won't be thousands of states, because people would recognise they are better off together.
- gambiting 9y ago
  >> because people would recognise they are better off together I don't believe for a second that people will. There are groups of people who don't give a crap about "being better off" - they care about showing those damn Spanish/British/French/German/Polish/<insert group name here> what they think and being able to "finally decide for themselves" which is complete nonsense. If people could so easily see the benefits of staying together then Brexit wouldn't happen and we wouldn't be seeing nationalist movements all over Europe nowadays. The problem is that the benefits are not obvious and you have to actually educate yourself a bit about them - but if someone is unwilling to put the energy into it, then it's not going to happen.
  - mercer 9y ago
    While I do agree with you, there's a bit of me that wonders whether allowing some regression on a smaller scale (although Brexit is by no means small) might keep us from becoming a powder keg that explodes at a later time. Already after Brexit I've heard quite a few reports of 1) young Brits elsewhere in Europe becoming much more engaged with politics because 'now it matters', and 2) Brexit voters who now regret their decision because it affects them negatively (or is likely to). Again, I agree with you and I don't think it's ideal, but part of me feels letting people make decisions like this, even if I personally think they're (often) stupid decisions prompted by populism, might be better than jamming 'the educated choice' down their throats. But I'm not expert on the matter. Are there any historical analogues that might provide some insight here?
    - _Tev 9y ago
      Yeah, I'd say let's allow UK to crash and burn in Brexit, so people have cautionary tale and educate themselves better next time they make such a big decision. It sounds mean, but as you are saying - we have to allow that at least sometimes, so people are ok with listening to more educated people next time. Because when even such fragmented group as economists agreed universally that Brexit is bad, it just is bad, and people should accept it.
krona 9y ago
In 1945 there were 51 members of the United Nations. There are now 193. What's the problem?

Aaargh20318 9y ago

> If you allow any region to declare independence then there will be thousands or maybe even more states. You say this like it's a bad thing. > Different provinces and regions are united into a country because this way they have more military power to defend themselves. Exactly. So there are many benefits for people to form larger groups, but please let them decide that for themselves. This kind of negates your first point, if there are obvious benefits then there won't be thousands of states, because people would recognise they are better off together.

gambiting 9y ago
>> because people would recognise they are better off together I don't believe for a second that people will. There are groups of people who don't give a crap about "being better off" - they care about showing those damn Spanish/British/French/German/Polish/<insert group name here> what they think and being able to "finally decide for themselves" which is complete nonsense. If people could so easily see the benefits of staying together then Brexit wouldn't happen and we wouldn't be seeing nationalist movements all over Europe nowadays. The problem is that the benefits are not obvious and you have to actually educate yourself a bit about them - but if someone is unwilling to put the energy into it, then it's not going to happen.
- mercer 9y ago
  While I do agree with you, there's a bit of me that wonders whether allowing some regression on a smaller scale (although Brexit is by no means small) might keep us from becoming a powder keg that explodes at a later time. Already after Brexit I've heard quite a few reports of 1) young Brits elsewhere in Europe becoming much more engaged with politics because 'now it matters', and 2) Brexit voters who now regret their decision because it affects them negatively (or is likely to). Again, I agree with you and I don't think it's ideal, but part of me feels letting people make decisions like this, even if I personally think they're (often) stupid decisions prompted by populism, might be better than jamming 'the educated choice' down their throats. But I'm not expert on the matter. Are there any historical analogues that might provide some insight here?
  - _Tev 9y ago
    Yeah, I'd say let's allow UK to crash and burn in Brexit, so people have cautionary tale and educate themselves better next time they make such a big decision. It sounds mean, but as you are saying - we have to allow that at least sometimes, so people are ok with listening to more educated people next time. Because when even such fragmented group as economists agreed universally that Brexit is bad, it just is bad, and people should accept it.

krona 9y ago

In 1945 there were 51 members of the United Nations. There are now 193. What's the problem?