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The sovereignty of Spain falls on all Spanish citizens. If you allow a referendum on such topic in a part of Spain, it doesn't matter the result because you're

The sovereignty of Spain falls on all Spanish citizens. If you allow a referendum on such topic in a part of Spain, it doesn't matter the result because you're accepting implicitly that a part of Spain can rule over the whole.

Aaargh20318 9y ago
> If you allow a referendum on such topic in a part of Spain, it doesn't matter the result because you're accepting implicitly that a part of Spain can rule over the whole Let's boil it down to the basics: an election decides who is going to be leader of a group of people. For that leader to be legitimate every member has to voluntarily decide they want to be part of the group and thus the election. The problem here is not that Catalonia doesn't accept the government because they didn't like who won the elections. The problem here is that they never agreed to even be part of those elections. If we have a group of 10 people who decide to democratically pick a leader, and the majority chooses Steve. That's fine. What is not fine is taking 2 random people of the street and tell them they have to now do what Steve tells them because he was voted leader 10 against 2. They never agreed to take part in the election and respect its results.
- mercer 9y ago
  And yet I don't see any way this can work without the 'tyranny of the majority', as long as we consider things like private property a thing. So ten people decide to bow at Steve's now-royal feet. His rule involves property. The two who didn't vote for him might be living within the boundaries of that property. Or it might not be economically feasible for them to survive without entering Steve's kingdom. And unfortunately all the other land is rules by Dave and Jared, who would require their submission just as much as Steve. I just don't see a practical way, within the framework of (pretty much?) then entire world at this point, where it is possible to not agree to take part in an election, and to realistically disrespect its results. Catalonia and the real world is more complicated, so perhaps there is a future where Catalonia succeeds at seceding. Personally I'm not as much against that as most people seem to be. But I guess I'm just pointing out that there's no simple anything that this situation can be reduced to.

Aaargh20318 9y ago

> If you allow a referendum on such topic in a part of Spain, it doesn't matter the result because you're accepting implicitly that a part of Spain can rule over the whole Let's boil it down to the basics: an election decides who is going to be leader of a group of people. For that leader to be legitimate every member has to voluntarily decide they want to be part of the group and thus the election. The problem here is not that Catalonia doesn't accept the government because they didn't like who won the elections. The problem here is that they never agreed to even be part of those elections. If we have a group of 10 people who decide to democratically pick a leader, and the majority chooses Steve. That's fine. What is not fine is taking 2 random people of the street and tell them they have to now do what Steve tells them because he was voted leader 10 against 2. They never agreed to take part in the election and respect its results.

mercer 9y ago
And yet I don't see any way this can work without the 'tyranny of the majority', as long as we consider things like private property a thing. So ten people decide to bow at Steve's now-royal feet. His rule involves property. The two who didn't vote for him might be living within the boundaries of that property. Or it might not be economically feasible for them to survive without entering Steve's kingdom. And unfortunately all the other land is rules by Dave and Jared, who would require their submission just as much as Steve. I just don't see a practical way, within the framework of (pretty much?) then entire world at this point, where it is possible to not agree to take part in an election, and to realistically disrespect its results. Catalonia and the real world is more complicated, so perhaps there is a future where Catalonia succeeds at seceding. Personally I'm not as much against that as most people seem to be. But I guess I'm just pointing out that there's no simple anything that this situation can be reduced to.