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> A democratic government derives it's legitimacy from the fact the people they govern choose to be governed by them. If the people obviously do not want this g
by polack 9y ago
> A democratic government derives it's legitimacy from the fact the people they govern choose to be governed by them. If the people obviously do not want this government, then isn't it the government that's obviously illegitimate ?
Spain has chosen to be governed by the current government. Democracy doesn't mean that you always get the way you want if the majority wants something else...
- throwawayknecht 9y ago> Spain has chosen to be governed by the current government. I mean, sort of yes, but also Catalonia was annexed within living memory.
- notspanishflu 9y agoIf you believe that lie, I can't help you.
- xenophonf 9y agoI think you can assume goodwill here. If OP is mistaken, clue them in. Reputable sources of info on the history of Catalonia are plentiful, whether online or in the library. In this case, OP is probably referring to the Spanish Civil War, which indeed happened within living memory and prior to which Catalonia was autonomous under the Second Spanish Republic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Catalonia#Republic_and_civil_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Catalonia#Republic_...
- kgwgk 9y agoIt's true, Catalonia already proclaimed its independence on the evening of October 6th 1934 (it only lasted until the early morning of October 7th 1934, though).
- InternetOfStuff 9y ago> I think you can assume goodwill here. If OP is mistaken, clue them in. Thank you.
- yorwba 9y agoWhat annexation are you talking about? As far as I can tell, Catalonia lost it's independence with the Nueva Planta decrees in 1716 [0], which is far from "within living memory". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueva_Planta_decrees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueva_Planta_decrees
- occultist_throw 9y agoOh please. Just because it happened a few hundred years ago, doesnt mean they lost their own heritage, their language, and their self-determination. Look no further than Ireland. That battle goes back to Grace O'Malley and Elizabeth in the 16th'c. In reality, it went further back, to this structure called the Hadrian Wall, but that's in 1st c. "Living memory" indeed.
- Aaargh20318 9y ago> Spain has chosen to be governed by the current government. Did they now ? Let's say Russia is having an election and the people in Crimea are allowed to vote. Let's assume the majority of Russians voted for Putin but hardly any of the people in Crimea did. Did Russia suddenly become the legitimate government of Crimea just because 'the people voted for it' ? I think the first step would be for the people to agree to have an election over who governs them first. AFAIK Catalonia didn't voluntarily join Spain, they got annexed.
- codedokode 9y ago> Catalonia didn't voluntarily join Spain, they got annexed. This is how most countries were formed in the Middle Ages. You either are big enough to defend yourself or become a part of big enough country.
- Aaargh20318 9y agoA lot of bad shit happened in the Dark Ages, that's why they are called the Dark Ages. Doesn't mean we shouldn't correct them now we know better.
- codedokode 9y agoIf you allow anyone to declare independence then Europe might split back apart into hundreds of small provinces. For example, there were times when major Greek and Italian cities were independent states, what if they will want to return back to that time? In this case an external enemy will conquer those small states one by one like Pacman eats dots.
- monort 9y agoWhy do you think a military alliance requires a political one? They can join e.g. NATO if they are afraid of Russia.
- 9y ago