3 ms·

Indeed. But what if the inhabitants of the Navajo Nation (http://www.nec.navajo-nsn.gov/portals/0/TEC%20US%20Map.png http://www.nec.navajo-nsn.gov/portals/0/TEC

Indeed. But what if the inhabitants of the Navajo Nation (http://www.nec.navajo-nsn.gov/portals/0/TEC%20US%20Map.png http://www.nec.navajo-nsn.gov/portals/0/TEC%20US%20Map.png) demanded sovereignty? The US would likely suppress its self-determination in exactly the same way.

protomyth 9y ago
Nah, these days the US government would just ignore them. It’s not like they take much of an interest in any of the tribal governments, unless it can get some politician some votes. A better example would be California or Texas. I’m pretty sure we would not see the preemptive harsh measures Spain has engaged in.
- ghaff 9y ago
  Fully agree. If California put a secession question on as a ballot referendum, think what you will of the current state of the federal government but I have a lot of trouble believing we'd see federal troops preventing people from voting. Obviously the situations are somewhat different. While I can actually imagine something wacky like that getting on the California ballot, it's not something very many people in California or elsewhere would take seriously.
akvadrako 9y ago
Hell, a bunch of semi-autonomous US states tried this in the 1860s and got crushed by the full force of the national military for their attempt. There is clearly no internationally accepted right to self-determination. Maybe there should be, but I'm not sure it can be made fair and practical. The status quo seems to be: > According to the Helsinki Final Act of 1975, the UN, ICJ and international law experts, there is no contradiction between the principles of self-determination and territorial integrity, with the latter taking precedence. ¹ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination
- ghaff 9y ago
  Although, even leaving aside issues specific to the Civil War, 2017 is also a lot different from 1860. To the degree that a region of a Western democracy, especially one with a clear historic identity, really wants to separate from the parent country, most would say it's their right to do so. (Although the separating region may not like the terms.) Sending national government troops into Scotland, Quebec, or California to force them to remain would be a pretty unpopular move throughout the Western world.

protomyth 9y ago

Nah, these days the US government would just ignore them. It’s not like they take much of an interest in any of the tribal governments, unless it can get some politician some votes. A better example would be California or Texas. I’m pretty sure we would not see the preemptive harsh measures Spain has engaged in.

ghaff 9y ago
Fully agree. If California put a secession question on as a ballot referendum, think what you will of the current state of the federal government but I have a lot of trouble believing we'd see federal troops preventing people from voting. Obviously the situations are somewhat different. While I can actually imagine something wacky like that getting on the California ballot, it's not something very many people in California or elsewhere would take seriously.

akvadrako 9y ago

Hell, a bunch of semi-autonomous US states tried this in the 1860s and got crushed by the full force of the national military for their attempt. There is clearly no internationally accepted right to self-determination. Maybe there should be, but I'm not sure it can be made fair and practical. The status quo seems to be: > According to the Helsinki Final Act of 1975, the UN, ICJ and international law experts, there is no contradiction between the principles of self-determination and territorial integrity, with the latter taking precedence. ¹ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination

ghaff 9y ago
Although, even leaving aside issues specific to the Civil War, 2017 is also a lot different from 1860. To the degree that a region of a Western democracy, especially one with a clear historic identity, really wants to separate from the parent country, most would say it's their right to do so. (Although the separating region may not like the terms.) Sending national government troops into Scotland, Quebec, or California to force them to remain would be a pretty unpopular move throughout the Western world.