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I was watching this one recently, and it really stuck to me. Vietnam War: The Face of the Enemy (Vietnamese Perspective) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdTx6

by cies 9y ago

I was watching this one recently, and it really stuck to me. Vietnam War: The Face of the Enemy (Vietnamese Perspective) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdTx6zLY0Zk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdTx6zLY0Zk (it finishes about half way through and then repeats) It's more based around interviews. But I think it shows a really interesting perspective, the perspective of the self-liberated colony that had to fight off the US army in order to get their own declaration of independence recognized.

stevenwoo 9y ago
It's covered in the PBS documentary, Ho Chi Minh asked Woodrow Wilson for help during the armistice talks for WWI Wilson had proclaimed support for self determination over colonialism, the PBS doc claims Wilson never got Ho Chi Minh's letter, history showed Wilson to be a pretty big racist so he might not have done anything anyways and Wilson was incapacitated for the last years of his presidency as well. Wilson also sent US troops into the USSR to try to stop the Bolshevik revolution so showed his preference towards preserving the old order. On the other hand it's kind of a crazy what if to imagine there not being a French/US involved civil war in Vietnam.
- cies 9y ago
  > On the other hand it's kind of a crazy what if to imagine there not being a French/US involved civil war in Vietnam. A lot less bloodshed. Otherwise I expect pretty much similar outcomes. HCM/north winning.
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    Yes, the same winning side. Ho Chi Minh did not want to be as cut throat as the guy ( forget his name ) who outmaneuvered Minh to take control of running the war versus the US. (According to the episodes of the PBS doc I have seen so far).
vidarh 9y ago
> in order to get their own declaration of independence recognized. In that context, it is worth knowing that this is how the Vietnamese declaration of independence[1] starts: > All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among them are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." > This immortal statement was made in the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense, this means: All the peoples on the earth are equal from birth, all the peoples have a right to live, to be happy and free. While Ho was a radical from relatively early on, he also admired the US greatly for a long time. Much like Castro (though the concrete missed opportunities for the US is much clearer in the case of Castro). [1] http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5139 http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5139
- cies 9y ago
  > While Ho was a radical from relatively early on, he also admired the US greatly for a long time. Marx admired the speed of innovation and efficiency of capitalism. :) But he also saw the downsides of the capitalist system for the workers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSQgCy_iIcc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSQgCy_iIcc
  - vidarh 9y ago
    Sure. The first chapter of the Communist Manifesto starts out basically praising capitalism into the skies for doing away with the worse systems before it and making efficiency gains that might finally make redistribution possible. I just wanted to emphasise that even though by Ho's time it was starting to become common for the left to paint the US as an enemy, and while Ho was at one point even an operative for the Komintern, he did not fit in that category - he long hoped for US support for Vietnamese independence because of his admiration for the apparent US views on colonialism for example.

by cies 9y ago

stevenwoo 9y ago

It's covered in the PBS documentary, Ho Chi Minh asked Woodrow Wilson for help during the armistice talks for WWI Wilson had proclaimed support for self determination over colonialism, the PBS doc claims Wilson never got Ho Chi Minh's letter, history showed Wilson to be a pretty big racist so he might not have done anything anyways and Wilson was incapacitated for the last years of his presidency as well. Wilson also sent US troops into the USSR to try to stop the Bolshevik revolution so showed his preference towards preserving the old order. On the other hand it's kind of a crazy what if to imagine there not being a French/US involved civil war in Vietnam.

cies 9y ago
> On the other hand it's kind of a crazy what if to imagine there not being a French/US involved civil war in Vietnam. A lot less bloodshed. Otherwise I expect pretty much similar outcomes. HCM/north winning.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  Yes, the same winning side. Ho Chi Minh did not want to be as cut throat as the guy ( forget his name ) who outmaneuvered Minh to take control of running the war versus the US. (According to the episodes of the PBS doc I have seen so far).

vidarh 9y ago

> in order to get their own declaration of independence recognized. In that context, it is worth knowing that this is how the Vietnamese declaration of independence[1] starts: > All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among them are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." > This immortal statement was made in the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense, this means: All the peoples on the earth are equal from birth, all the peoples have a right to live, to be happy and free. While Ho was a radical from relatively early on, he also admired the US greatly for a long time. Much like Castro (though the concrete missed opportunities for the US is much clearer in the case of Castro). [1] http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5139 http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5139

cies 9y ago
> While Ho was a radical from relatively early on, he also admired the US greatly for a long time. Marx admired the speed of innovation and efficiency of capitalism. :) But he also saw the downsides of the capitalist system for the workers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSQgCy_iIcc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSQgCy_iIcc
- vidarh 9y ago
  Sure. The first chapter of the Communist Manifesto starts out basically praising capitalism into the skies for doing away with the worse systems before it and making efficiency gains that might finally make redistribution possible. I just wanted to emphasise that even though by Ho's time it was starting to become common for the left to paint the US as an enemy, and while Ho was at one point even an operative for the Komintern, he did not fit in that category - he long hoped for US support for Vietnamese independence because of his admiration for the apparent US views on colonialism for example.