3 ms·

"I would add, despite very negative people like you." Have fun when you run into the same lesson left unlearned from the 70s - distributed permission-less data

"I would add, despite very negative people like you." Have fun when you run into the same lesson left unlearned from the 70s - distributed permission-less databases like blockchains cannot scale without becoming centralized. The more people that wish to participate, the growth rate starts jumping from exponential to exponential * log with the bandwidth and storage requirements to ensure every other node on the network is properly updated. "People didn't create bitcoin to replace cash. Years ago, the community tried to create an alternative to all existing money systems. That's all." Cash is a money system. You contradict yourself.

sametmax 9y ago
> Have fun when you run into the same lesson left unlearned from the 70s - distributed permission-less databases like blockchains cannot scale without becoming centralized. The more people that wish to participate, the growth rate starts jumping from exponential to exponential * log with the bandwidth and storage requirements to ensure every other node on the network is properly updated. You mean it may fail ? Yes, we are aware. Since the beginning. That's what "experiment" comes from. > Cash is a money system. You contradict yourself. Being an alternative is not being a replacement. Just like the bike is an alternative to a car, and not a replacement for it. You seem to have a terrible grudge against bitcoin. I'm sorry about it, but it's irrelevant here. You may like it or not, but don't give the early community objectives we didn't have. We never sold a magical solution. We were not some 14 years old kid in a hoodie screaming "kill the banks". We hoped. A lot. We dreamed. We did noticed and disliked a lot of flaws in our current systems and institutions and explored other ways. But as intelligent people, we know very well the limit of the project and how much it can hurt. So keep your negativity to yourself. It's uncalled for, and definitely unwanted.
- 212387123 9y ago
  negativity [x] uncalled for [x] pro-blockchain [x] You Sir, have won the millenial-plays-adult award.
rothbardrand 9y ago
If people who opposed bitcoin had less attitude, and more arguments, and less unsupported assertions about what can and cannot scale, then I would be more concerned about bitcoin. Bitcoin can, as of now, scale to support the current needs of 10 billion humans. Some of those solutions are still being completed (eg: beta, not golden master) but there's little theoretical risk, and while there will be bugs there's little indication of anything stopping it, should that level of adoption be desired. Most likely you don't understand what bitcoin actually is.
- lightedman 9y ago
  "Bitcoin can, as of now, scale to support the current needs of 10 billion humans" If every single human were mining, no, it certainly could not. If there are only a few miners and a bunch of participants, maybe. To boot, Bitcoin can't even support my needs. It's too slow for transactions unless I pay some other middleman, it can't cut my gemstones, it can't solder my LEDs, it can't run my Verilog sims, it can't raise my cat or feed my husband. Bitcoin doesn't sate my thirst nor does it provide me with my medicine - actual needs. "Most likely you don't understand what bitcoin actually is." I don't need to understand bitcoin to understand that we tried exactly this back in the 70s and apparently people didn't learn the lesson THEN. Distributed permissionless databases simply can not scale if everyone participates. The technology then, as now, simply does not exist to handle that amount of storage and bandwidth. It likely won't in another 50 years, if we even make it that far. Having over 30 years of experience in computers and networking and databases, I look at this and say "Go back to school, one with a proper education involving some actual history regarding computers and databases and networking." All you learn is how to code and don't learn about what's already been done or tried, so everything is new to you when it was already seen, tested, or envisioned before I was even born.
  - tCfD 9y ago
    Is there a specific project you are referring to here? I'm very interested in the earlier history of research that tested the premise of global-scale decentralized control.

sametmax 9y ago

> Have fun when you run into the same lesson left unlearned from the 70s - distributed permission-less databases like blockchains cannot scale without becoming centralized. The more people that wish to participate, the growth rate starts jumping from exponential to exponential * log with the bandwidth and storage requirements to ensure every other node on the network is properly updated. You mean it may fail ? Yes, we are aware. Since the beginning. That's what "experiment" comes from. > Cash is a money system. You contradict yourself. Being an alternative is not being a replacement. Just like the bike is an alternative to a car, and not a replacement for it. You seem to have a terrible grudge against bitcoin. I'm sorry about it, but it's irrelevant here. You may like it or not, but don't give the early community objectives we didn't have. We never sold a magical solution. We were not some 14 years old kid in a hoodie screaming "kill the banks". We hoped. A lot. We dreamed. We did noticed and disliked a lot of flaws in our current systems and institutions and explored other ways. But as intelligent people, we know very well the limit of the project and how much it can hurt. So keep your negativity to yourself. It's uncalled for, and definitely unwanted.

212387123 9y ago
negativity [x] uncalled for [x] pro-blockchain [x] You Sir, have won the millenial-plays-adult award.

rothbardrand 9y ago

If people who opposed bitcoin had less attitude, and more arguments, and less unsupported assertions about what can and cannot scale, then I would be more concerned about bitcoin. Bitcoin can, as of now, scale to support the current needs of 10 billion humans. Some of those solutions are still being completed (eg: beta, not golden master) but there's little theoretical risk, and while there will be bugs there's little indication of anything stopping it, should that level of adoption be desired. Most likely you don't understand what bitcoin actually is.

lightedman 9y ago
"Bitcoin can, as of now, scale to support the current needs of 10 billion humans" If every single human were mining, no, it certainly could not. If there are only a few miners and a bunch of participants, maybe. To boot, Bitcoin can't even support my needs. It's too slow for transactions unless I pay some other middleman, it can't cut my gemstones, it can't solder my LEDs, it can't run my Verilog sims, it can't raise my cat or feed my husband. Bitcoin doesn't sate my thirst nor does it provide me with my medicine - actual needs. "Most likely you don't understand what bitcoin actually is." I don't need to understand bitcoin to understand that we tried exactly this back in the 70s and apparently people didn't learn the lesson THEN. Distributed permissionless databases simply can not scale if everyone participates. The technology then, as now, simply does not exist to handle that amount of storage and bandwidth. It likely won't in another 50 years, if we even make it that far. Having over 30 years of experience in computers and networking and databases, I look at this and say "Go back to school, one with a proper education involving some actual history regarding computers and databases and networking." All you learn is how to code and don't learn about what's already been done or tried, so everything is new to you when it was already seen, tested, or envisioned before I was even born.
- tCfD 9y ago
  Is there a specific project you are referring to here? I'm very interested in the earlier history of research that tested the premise of global-scale decentralized control.