4 ms·

>If one cannot protect oneself against criminal elements, one is vulnerable to be harmed, intimidated, & suppressed. That really isn't the first order way one

>If one cannot protect oneself against criminal elements, one is vulnerable to be harmed, intimidated, & suppressed. That really isn't the first order way one protects themselves from criminal elements. Even if you are Jason Bourne, living in a mad max wasteland you will not live long. Whereas millions of people with zero self defense skills can go through their whole lives never having to defend themselves at all in civilized societies. It isn't even clear if keeping powerful weapons around in a civilized place is a net win on safety. Yes there is some chance you may successfully defend yourself from criminals, but that is very low, maybe lower than the chance of having an accident or some other negative results of owning the weapon.

briantakita 9y ago
> Even if you are Jason Bourne, living in a mad max wasteland you will not live long. Whereas millions of people with zero self defense skills can go through their whole lives never having to defend themselves at all in civilized societies. This is a false dichotomy. Banning legal gun ownership does not mean a civilized society (i.e. Bordertowns in Mexico) & protecting legal gun ownership does not mean a Mad Max Society. > It isn't even clear if keeping powerful weapons around in a civilized place is a net win on safety. The maxim is one of preventing asymmetric power. Legal Gun Ownership is an effective strategy to check the lethal power of the state, cartels, gangs, etc. Hitler, Stalin, & Mao used gun control to give the state a monopoly on violence. Many societies that have gun control are relatively safe, but many with gun control also devolve into a case where the criminal elements gain power & rule due to a monopoly on violence. Mexico does not allow legal gun ownership yet Sinaloa, Los Zetas, MS-13, & corrupt Federales own guns. The law abiding population suffers (in horrific ways) as a result. Chicago has some of the strongest gun control laws in the USA; yet, gang members don't seem to want to follow the law...and the violent crime rates hold testament to the consequences. Legal gun ownership is one of many strategies to implement. It's a particularly effective safeguard when you have political/demographic/cultural/societal dynamics that are less than ideal to ensure that law abiding citizens have a shooting chance.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  Quoting [1] "No Other Rich Western Country Comes Close Gun homicides per day if each country had the same population as the U.S." See chart. "Chicago has some of the strongest gun control laws in the USA; yet, gang members don't seem to want to follow the law...and the violent crime rates hold testament to the consequences." The cat is out of the bag in the USA. Guns are everywhere, and the Constitution permits it. You cannot change a society like that overnight, even with the best will in the world. You can put effort in tightening the grips, apparently like in Chicago, but that doesn't mean its going to be followed. Especially not by criminals. The other part of strict gun laws, is actively enforcing them. One big advantage when you do see a gun in such case is: either its an undercover cop (unlikely) or a criminal (that means: freeze or flight, since you don't have a gun). In the USA you got far too much fight instead of flight, the source underlines that. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-death-rates-the-us-is-in-a-different-world.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-...

briantakita 9y ago

> Even if you are Jason Bourne, living in a mad max wasteland you will not live long. Whereas millions of people with zero self defense skills can go through their whole lives never having to defend themselves at all in civilized societies. This is a false dichotomy. Banning legal gun ownership does not mean a civilized society (i.e. Bordertowns in Mexico) & protecting legal gun ownership does not mean a Mad Max Society. > It isn't even clear if keeping powerful weapons around in a civilized place is a net win on safety. The maxim is one of preventing asymmetric power. Legal Gun Ownership is an effective strategy to check the lethal power of the state, cartels, gangs, etc. Hitler, Stalin, & Mao used gun control to give the state a monopoly on violence. Many societies that have gun control are relatively safe, but many with gun control also devolve into a case where the criminal elements gain power & rule due to a monopoly on violence. Mexico does not allow legal gun ownership yet Sinaloa, Los Zetas, MS-13, & corrupt Federales own guns. The law abiding population suffers (in horrific ways) as a result. Chicago has some of the strongest gun control laws in the USA; yet, gang members don't seem to want to follow the law...and the violent crime rates hold testament to the consequences. Legal gun ownership is one of many strategies to implement. It's a particularly effective safeguard when you have political/demographic/cultural/societal dynamics that are less than ideal to ensure that law abiding citizens have a shooting chance.

Fnoord 9y ago
Quoting [1] "No Other Rich Western Country Comes Close Gun homicides per day if each country had the same population as the U.S." See chart. "Chicago has some of the strongest gun control laws in the USA; yet, gang members don't seem to want to follow the law...and the violent crime rates hold testament to the consequences." The cat is out of the bag in the USA. Guns are everywhere, and the Constitution permits it. You cannot change a society like that overnight, even with the best will in the world. You can put effort in tightening the grips, apparently like in Chicago, but that doesn't mean its going to be followed. Especially not by criminals. The other part of strict gun laws, is actively enforcing them. One big advantage when you do see a gun in such case is: either its an undercover cop (unlikely) or a criminal (that means: freeze or flight, since you don't have a gun). In the USA you got far too much fight instead of flight, the source underlines that. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-death-rates-the-us-is-in-a-different-world.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-...