4 ms·

Yes, PHP is a very well-thought language compared to Ocaml, right? Really KISS principle. /s There are lots of incredible good software and research (mostly ou

by xfer 9y ago

Yes, PHP is a very well-thought language compared to Ocaml, right? Really KISS principle. /s There are lots of incredible good software and research (mostly out of INRIA) from France.

nnq 9y ago
Did I say anything about PHP?! I mentioned Symfony but that's contrary too the point (and a fine example of over-engineering, btw...). And Ocaml seems cool, though Haskell people see it like "eager Haskell with too many features and complexity and syntax on top". I took a look at the Ocsigen Ocaml web framework long ago though, and I was like "jeeez, wtff"... the language may seem cool, but that thing... ugh... But I can't really have an opinion on that since the only truly functional languages I've really played with were dynamic (Clojure and Erlang), static + functional is not really my area of experience.
- xfer 9y ago
  Haskell people see Ocaml as a language with too many features and complexity? really? Haskell, a language with a billion extensions? Have you ever tried compiling ghc? I don't know about ocsigen(i don't do web development), but i guess all web frameworks are more complex than they need to be. I haven't even mentioned all the formal verification stuff(coq, a verified C compiler, frama-c etc.) that come from inria. I mentioned PHP because the GP was saying languages like PHP that comes from denmark etc., but nothing from France.
  - tome 9y ago
    A lot of Haskell extensions actually increase simplicity (by removing fairly arbirary restrictions) not complexity.
nnq 9y ago
...and also, ugly as it may be as a language, PHP is a great tool at reducing complexity if you think higher-level (deployment, scaling): the shared-nothing, each requests runs from scratch (and in an isolated process) architecture makes lots of things 100x times simpler. Of course, this wonderfully simple architecture turns 100% against you if you have the bad taste of trying to write a big and "properly engineered" framework on top of it. I kinda love PHP as long as I don't have to read/write any of it myself ;) (Oh, and you made me realize what's the core of my "french software" stereotype: getting complex-vs-simple completely backwards! ...of course, it's just a funny stereotype, the real people I've actually known are all smart and cool and understand trade-offs even when we don't agree on architecture and organizing stuff :P)

by xfer 9y ago

Yes, PHP is a very well-thought language compared to Ocaml, right? Really KISS principle. /s There are lots of incredible good software and research (mostly out of INRIA) from France.

nnq 9y ago

Did I say anything about PHP?! I mentioned Symfony but that's contrary too the point (and a fine example of over-engineering, btw...). And Ocaml seems cool, though Haskell people see it like "eager Haskell with too many features and complexity and syntax on top". I took a look at the Ocsigen Ocaml web framework long ago though, and I was like "jeeez, wtff"... the language may seem cool, but that thing... ugh... But I can't really have an opinion on that since the only truly functional languages I've really played with were dynamic (Clojure and Erlang), static + functional is not really my area of experience.

xfer 9y ago
Haskell people see Ocaml as a language with too many features and complexity? really? Haskell, a language with a billion extensions? Have you ever tried compiling ghc? I don't know about ocsigen(i don't do web development), but i guess all web frameworks are more complex than they need to be. I haven't even mentioned all the formal verification stuff(coq, a verified C compiler, frama-c etc.) that come from inria. I mentioned PHP because the GP was saying languages like PHP that comes from denmark etc., but nothing from France.
- tome 9y ago
  A lot of Haskell extensions actually increase simplicity (by removing fairly arbirary restrictions) not complexity.

nnq 9y ago

...and also, ugly as it may be as a language, PHP is a great tool at reducing complexity if you think higher-level (deployment, scaling): the shared-nothing, each requests runs from scratch (and in an isolated process) architecture makes lots of things 100x times simpler. Of course, this wonderfully simple architecture turns 100% against you if you have the bad taste of trying to write a big and "properly engineered" framework on top of it. I kinda love PHP as long as I don't have to read/write any of it myself ;) (Oh, and you made me realize what's the core of my "french software" stereotype: getting complex-vs-simple completely backwards! ...of course, it's just a funny stereotype, the real people I've actually known are all smart and cool and understand trade-offs even when we don't agree on architecture and organizing stuff :P)