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What I have found through my experiences with depressed people is that the vast majority of them are not insane people in a sane society, but perfectly sane peo

What I have found through my experiences with depressed people is that the vast majority of them are not insane people in a sane society, but perfectly sane people in an insane society, people who have maladapted to their environment but would otherwise (if they had a better one) be perfectly healthy individuals. Many of them internalize their sadness and helplessness and make it a part of their identity, further reinforcing the common belief among depressed people that they are ill at a biological level (and are not merely healthy people in an unhealthy environment). I don't think the solution to this is ever going to lay in the hands of psychologists, and certainly not psychiatrists (SSRI's and SNRI's work only slightly better than chance in most people, and taking other antidepressant/mood-stabilizing medication is a hellish experience all its own) - it lays in the hands of the people who construct the environment we live in, the people in charge of its development and health, the people who have the most power over society. These are the people who have destroyed it and made the environment we all have to live in such a hellish place, and their successors will certainly be the only people who can fix it.

defined 9y ago
I don't know. Depression has been recorded for thousands of years, so either society has always been insane (quite likely), in which case it's not likely to turn around any time soon, or there are other causes of depression. Some people can also fall into a depression for no identifiable reason (I can vouch for that from experience). SSRIs and SNRIs and other medications have saved my life and some of my sanity, and I have high confidence that it's not a placebo - for me - having tried and failed with probably a dozen of these over the years, before hitting on a workable combination. And after maybe 5 years or so, that combination became ineffective, and I had to try a few more. But that's just me, so this is anecdata.
- Oxitendwe 9y ago
  >I don't know. Depression has been recorded for thousands of years, so either society has always been insane (quite likely), in which case it's not likely to turn around any time soon, or there are other causes of depression. Some people can also fall into a depression for no identifiable reason (I can vouch for that from experience). Of course there have always been depressed people, but the modern phenomenon where supposedly 10% of the population will have it in their lives, or where entire countries experience skyrocketing suicide rates, is certainly not related - I find it very difficult to believe that they all have a biological problem, instead of a cultural or societal problem. >SSRIs and SNRIs and other medications have saved my life and some of my sanity, and I have high confidence that it's not a placebo - for me - having tried and failed with probably a dozen of these over the years, before hitting on a workable combination. I don't doubt this - I only said that the vast majority of sufferers of depression do not seem to suffer from a biological problem. From my personal experience, I have seen that most of the depressed people I have known have gotten better not through medicine or medical procedure, but by consciously trying to make their lives better and be the best person they can be. Obviously this won't work for everyone - there really is such a thing as biologically-caused mental illness (see: schizophrenia, for example), but I think it is much rarer than people are willing to admit. >But that's just me, so this is anecdata. All data is anecdata. It's not worthless just because it happens to be your actual life and not collated and tallied by some detached scientist, it has meaning and value even without being a part of some anonymous dataset you can take confidence intervals on.
  - defined 9y ago
    You make your points persuasively and elegantly, and I agree with you for the most part. I think much of what is diagnosed as depression in recent times may be a synonym for despair at these times (echoing Cicero : "O tempora! O mores!"). On the other hand, clinical depression of the kind that has assailed me since my teenage years (and from which my son suffers and showed signs of since 5 or 6 years old) appears most certainly to be genetically caused. I suspect that maybe a physical cause of depression is less rare than you think.

defined 9y ago

I don't know. Depression has been recorded for thousands of years, so either society has always been insane (quite likely), in which case it's not likely to turn around any time soon, or there are other causes of depression. Some people can also fall into a depression for no identifiable reason (I can vouch for that from experience). SSRIs and SNRIs and other medications have saved my life and some of my sanity, and I have high confidence that it's not a placebo - for me - having tried and failed with probably a dozen of these over the years, before hitting on a workable combination. And after maybe 5 years or so, that combination became ineffective, and I had to try a few more. But that's just me, so this is anecdata.

Oxitendwe 9y ago
>I don't know. Depression has been recorded for thousands of years, so either society has always been insane (quite likely), in which case it's not likely to turn around any time soon, or there are other causes of depression. Some people can also fall into a depression for no identifiable reason (I can vouch for that from experience). Of course there have always been depressed people, but the modern phenomenon where supposedly 10% of the population will have it in their lives, or where entire countries experience skyrocketing suicide rates, is certainly not related - I find it very difficult to believe that they all have a biological problem, instead of a cultural or societal problem. >SSRIs and SNRIs and other medications have saved my life and some of my sanity, and I have high confidence that it's not a placebo - for me - having tried and failed with probably a dozen of these over the years, before hitting on a workable combination. I don't doubt this - I only said that the vast majority of sufferers of depression do not seem to suffer from a biological problem. From my personal experience, I have seen that most of the depressed people I have known have gotten better not through medicine or medical procedure, but by consciously trying to make their lives better and be the best person they can be. Obviously this won't work for everyone - there really is such a thing as biologically-caused mental illness (see: schizophrenia, for example), but I think it is much rarer than people are willing to admit. >But that's just me, so this is anecdata. All data is anecdata. It's not worthless just because it happens to be your actual life and not collated and tallied by some detached scientist, it has meaning and value even without being a part of some anonymous dataset you can take confidence intervals on.
- defined 9y ago
  You make your points persuasively and elegantly, and I agree with you for the most part. I think much of what is diagnosed as depression in recent times may be a synonym for despair at these times (echoing Cicero : "O tempora! O mores!"). On the other hand, clinical depression of the kind that has assailed me since my teenage years (and from which my son suffers and showed signs of since 5 or 6 years old) appears most certainly to be genetically caused. I suspect that maybe a physical cause of depression is less rare than you think.