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I think foreigners tend to profoundly misunderstand what the law of Jante is about. It is not guidelines for how to behave in Scandinavia. It is a caricature we

I think foreigners tend to profoundly misunderstand what the law of Jante is about. It is not guidelines for how to behave in Scandinavia. It is a caricature we use ourselves to fight negative aspects of our culture. IMHO it is the negative aspects of things which are actually positive in Scandinavia. Humbleness, solidarity, consensus seeking, honesty are good Scandinavian virtuous. But there is always a flip side of the coin. It is like in America, having faith in yourself and be proud of yourself are virtuous things, but there is also a flip side to it which is negative. That is bragging, being self centered and selfish. Taking sole credit for success of which you were only a participant. Janteloven is not something to be celebrated but a rethotical tool to use against fellow Scandinavians when they are acting too negative towards an individual trying to do something great and new.

digi_owl 9y ago
Never mind that the author was a known misanthrope...
yolio 9y ago
I don't really find the law of jante very applicable to Scandinavia, at least not uniquely so. Scandinavia is in many ways one of the most individualistic places in the world, in terms of things like social values or religion. It's seem like most people who mention the law either seem to describe things prevalent in many parts of the world, don't agree with egalitarianism or dislikes the fore mentioned individualism.
- paloaltokid 9y ago
  How much time have you spent in Scandinavia? I grew up there and it's very much alive and well.
  - yolio 9y ago
    Most of my life. I don't deny there is a certain consensus driven culture with a general fear of conflict. But I don't agree that Scandinavia in particular has, as people tend to argue, a dislike for successful people nor necessarily of people being different, as long as there is also substance. Especially with there being so many well liked successful Scandinavians. It seems to me like people most often mean: A) That the grass is greener somewhere else. Which can be true in many cases, but is usually more down to individual circumstances. B) That they like more appreciation for their social status. As in more egalitarian societies few things are by themselves impressive. C) Or that they actually want more collectivism and people to be invested in their success, in contrast to the sometimes cold Scandinavian individualism. In term more destructive collectivism I think the US/UK (who loves to hate celebrities), central Europe (where everyone have only themselves to blame) and Asia (with a lot of social pressure) is worse.
- jernfrost 9y ago
  Yeah I think it is hard to explain scandinavia to people as it is both extremely indiviualistic and group oriented. The collectivism in Scandinavia is not quite like in asia, although there is some overlapping. My own experience with asian culture is that it is far more paternalistic and top down. Scandinavians tend to be extremely anti-elite and anti-hierarchy while at the same time placing a large trust in government.
- strangecasts 9y ago
  I think it's vital to keep in mind the setting of A Fugitive Crosses His Tracks when discussing it. The law is presented both as a result of, and a way of maintaining the large class divide in 1930s small towns like Jante: Calvinist work ethic and a lack of upward mobility festering into resentment for other working-class people. This is why I'm a little skeptical of attempts to invoke it for modern Scandinavia (especially since it's become somewhat of a rhetorical bludgeon used in favor of tax cuts)

digi_owl 9y ago

Never mind that the author was a known misanthrope...

yolio 9y ago

I don't really find the law of jante very applicable to Scandinavia, at least not uniquely so. Scandinavia is in many ways one of the most individualistic places in the world, in terms of things like social values or religion. It's seem like most people who mention the law either seem to describe things prevalent in many parts of the world, don't agree with egalitarianism or dislikes the fore mentioned individualism.

paloaltokid 9y ago
How much time have you spent in Scandinavia? I grew up there and it's very much alive and well.
- yolio 9y ago
  Most of my life. I don't deny there is a certain consensus driven culture with a general fear of conflict. But I don't agree that Scandinavia in particular has, as people tend to argue, a dislike for successful people nor necessarily of people being different, as long as there is also substance. Especially with there being so many well liked successful Scandinavians. It seems to me like people most often mean: A) That the grass is greener somewhere else. Which can be true in many cases, but is usually more down to individual circumstances. B) That they like more appreciation for their social status. As in more egalitarian societies few things are by themselves impressive. C) Or that they actually want more collectivism and people to be invested in their success, in contrast to the sometimes cold Scandinavian individualism. In term more destructive collectivism I think the US/UK (who loves to hate celebrities), central Europe (where everyone have only themselves to blame) and Asia (with a lot of social pressure) is worse.
jernfrost 9y ago
Yeah I think it is hard to explain scandinavia to people as it is both extremely indiviualistic and group oriented. The collectivism in Scandinavia is not quite like in asia, although there is some overlapping. My own experience with asian culture is that it is far more paternalistic and top down. Scandinavians tend to be extremely anti-elite and anti-hierarchy while at the same time placing a large trust in government.
strangecasts 9y ago
I think it's vital to keep in mind the setting of A Fugitive Crosses His Tracks when discussing it. The law is presented both as a result of, and a way of maintaining the large class divide in 1930s small towns like Jante: Calvinist work ethic and a lack of upward mobility festering into resentment for other working-class people. This is why I'm a little skeptical of attempts to invoke it for modern Scandinavia (especially since it's become somewhat of a rhetorical bludgeon used in favor of tax cuts)