4 ms·

It's absolutely absurd that "arrest quotas" are even a thing in America. The job of the police in most first world countries is to protect the people, not make

It's absolutely absurd that "arrest quotas" are even a thing in America. The job of the police in most first world countries is to protect the people, not make arrests for ludicrous laws. I don't want my tax dollars funding police officers camping out on highways to hand out speeding tickets or arresting random people for having pocket knives on them. No wonder Americans have such an adversarial relationship with the police.

theWatcher37 9y ago
And by extension the government. Americans have a built in distrust of our government (often for good reason), which is why a lot of policies don’t happen here.
- throwawayfnei 9y ago
  So much distrust that we keep electing fascists!
wdr1 9y ago
"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. It's also worth noting in many areas arrest quotas are outright illegal. What departments do typically do is look at distributions. Say on a Friday evening shift, over the past 12 month period, a typical officer typically has 16-18 speeding stops. However, during the same Friday evening shift, an offer typically writes 1-2 for the past months. Why? Maybe it's something explainable. Maybe it's the officer isn't doing a good job. But that's the intent of looking at distribution. It's not to say the officer has to write 16-18, but if it turned out they were slacking off, they may easily see it that way.
- URSpider94 9y ago
  From the article: ““It’s an easy way to make an arrest. And they’re under pressure to make arrests.” A poster on Officer.com, a verified online message board for law enforcement officers, put it bluntly in 2013 when he advised a rookie to be on the lookout for “GKs”: “make sure they have a prior conviction so you can bump it up to that felony!!!” So, there may not be quotas, but it’s pretty clear that there is pressure to deliver arrest numbers, especially felony arrests. A different mechanism that drives the same behavior.
  - gozur88 9y ago
    But they have to put pressure on cops to make arrests, because if they don't, cops will only make an arrest when someone pisses them off or does something so bad and so public it's going to make the papers. Speeding tickets are a perfect example. The sergeant has a life outside work - he gets days off, he runs errands, he drives to and from work. And all the while he sees people doing stupid stuff just like the rest of us. So it's hard for him to imagine his officers can drive around for an entire shift and never see someone speeding, running a red light, or making an illegal u-turn. What do you think your boss would do if you sat at your desk and did nothing all day?
    - uxp 9y ago
      > And all the while he sees people doing stupid stuff just like the rest of us. So it's hard for him to imagine his officers can drive around for an entire shift and never see someone speeding, running a red light, or making an illegal u-turn. Then they should stop and cite those violations. No one said that the police should not write tickets for minor misdemeanors. The complaint is the practice of using those misdemeanors as a way to pad their productivity, and by extension their department's budget. Police departments should be a sunk cost. There shouldn't be pressure to make arrests, as an arrest can only be made when someone breaks the law and is caught. Look at the whole Arpaio mess. Sure, Illegal Immigrants are here illegally, but it's a national problem, not a local problem. We've sat complaining (at least we were as of last year before shit got fucked) that the feds are going after medical marijuana dispensaries in CA despite the fact that locally, those dispensaries are by-and-large complying with local laws. An illegal immigrant in Arizona isn't all that different. They may be breaking a federal law, but they're a productive member of their community. They aren't breaking any local laws, and it's been ruled countless times that local police departments should not be enforcing those laws much like a local patrolman can't really arrest and cite someone for treason. It's above their pay grade. When you do have departments focusing on one kind of violation, like treason or illegal immigration, as Arpaio ended up doing, the department pulls resources from other violations, like rape and statutory rape, that are mostly violent crime with victims that want justice for the pain and suffering they endured by their neighbors. Those are the people that should be arrested, and the fortunate (or unfortunate) reality is that a lawful community will have officers that are not "productive".
- pravda 9y ago
  >"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. No it isn't! In New York City, of course there are arrest quotas. As a matter of fact, NYPD officers will arrest innocent people, on entirely trumped-up charges, just to make quota.
  - mikestew 9y ago
    I’m not saying there’s a [citation needed] for every single claim someone makes, but good golly this sure would go better with a link to back what you’re saying.
    - pravda 9y ago
      Here ya go: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/nyregion/16narcotics.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/nyregion/16narcotics.html
- CPLX 9y ago
  Yeah, no. Arrest quotas are obviously and undeniably real, they've been documented numerous times in various contexts. The most recent major case of many such examples in NYC was the Adrian Schoolcraft case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft
- lend000 9y ago
  A ticket quota is the same principle, and those are apparently the norm.
- Ironchefpython 9y ago
  > "Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. This is incorrect. Almost every law enforcement organization in the United States tracks the number of arrests made by each officer, and there is ample evidence that this information is used when making personnel and staffing decisions. Also, many municipalities track arrests by organizational unit (in NYC it is per precinct), and when management (police chief) requires that mid-level management (commanding officer) "get their numbers up", you have exactly the same incentive to commit fraud that you see in places like Wells Fargo. Also, rather than taking my word for it, you should look at the many, many, many, many news articles that have been done on the subject. There's the first google hit (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/NYPD-Lieutenant-Says-There-Are-Quotas-I-Team-Wallace-374307721.html http://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/NYPD-Lieutenant-Say...), feel free to look at the first 200 search results for corroborating reports.
mschuster91 9y ago
Lol they're common in other parts of the world too, e.g. in Germany. They dont officially exist, rather informally, and end up in the UN complaining about racial profiling by cops. Pro tip, avoid German train stations if you're not white.
- Koshkin 9y ago
  Do you mean "avoid loitering at train stations" or "avoid using trains"?
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    Loitering, pickpocketing, begging, etc But somehow enforcement of the law is "oppression"
    - gambiting 9y ago
      If the law is broad enough that the law can be "enforced" and used to arrest anyone at any given time for almost any reason, then yes, it absolutely is oppression.
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    > Do you mean "avoid loitering at train stations" or "avoid using trains"? Avoid using the major traffic hubs. No joke. Cops here will even fleece you on the spot sometimes if you're black. They seem to believe that all black or rasta wearing persons are dope dealers.
rhizome 9y ago
In the US, law enforcement is both an industry and a market.
- Koshkin 9y ago
  What isn't??
  - rhizome 9y ago
    I'm much less concerned with that question than whether or not it should be this way. Personally, I'm not given to throwing my hands up with a "capitalism amirite?"

theWatcher37 9y ago

And by extension the government. Americans have a built in distrust of our government (often for good reason), which is why a lot of policies don’t happen here.

throwawayfnei 9y ago
So much distrust that we keep electing fascists!

wdr1 9y ago

"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. It's also worth noting in many areas arrest quotas are outright illegal. What departments do typically do is look at distributions. Say on a Friday evening shift, over the past 12 month period, a typical officer typically has 16-18 speeding stops. However, during the same Friday evening shift, an offer typically writes 1-2 for the past months. Why? Maybe it's something explainable. Maybe it's the officer isn't doing a good job. But that's the intent of looking at distribution. It's not to say the officer has to write 16-18, but if it turned out they were slacking off, they may easily see it that way.

URSpider94 9y ago
From the article: ““It’s an easy way to make an arrest. And they’re under pressure to make arrests.” A poster on Officer.com, a verified online message board for law enforcement officers, put it bluntly in 2013 when he advised a rookie to be on the lookout for “GKs”: “make sure they have a prior conviction so you can bump it up to that felony!!!” So, there may not be quotas, but it’s pretty clear that there is pressure to deliver arrest numbers, especially felony arrests. A different mechanism that drives the same behavior.
- gozur88 9y ago
  But they have to put pressure on cops to make arrests, because if they don't, cops will only make an arrest when someone pisses them off or does something so bad and so public it's going to make the papers. Speeding tickets are a perfect example. The sergeant has a life outside work - he gets days off, he runs errands, he drives to and from work. And all the while he sees people doing stupid stuff just like the rest of us. So it's hard for him to imagine his officers can drive around for an entire shift and never see someone speeding, running a red light, or making an illegal u-turn. What do you think your boss would do if you sat at your desk and did nothing all day?
  - uxp 9y ago
    > And all the while he sees people doing stupid stuff just like the rest of us. So it's hard for him to imagine his officers can drive around for an entire shift and never see someone speeding, running a red light, or making an illegal u-turn. Then they should stop and cite those violations. No one said that the police should not write tickets for minor misdemeanors. The complaint is the practice of using those misdemeanors as a way to pad their productivity, and by extension their department's budget. Police departments should be a sunk cost. There shouldn't be pressure to make arrests, as an arrest can only be made when someone breaks the law and is caught. Look at the whole Arpaio mess. Sure, Illegal Immigrants are here illegally, but it's a national problem, not a local problem. We've sat complaining (at least we were as of last year before shit got fucked) that the feds are going after medical marijuana dispensaries in CA despite the fact that locally, those dispensaries are by-and-large complying with local laws. An illegal immigrant in Arizona isn't all that different. They may be breaking a federal law, but they're a productive member of their community. They aren't breaking any local laws, and it's been ruled countless times that local police departments should not be enforcing those laws much like a local patrolman can't really arrest and cite someone for treason. It's above their pay grade. When you do have departments focusing on one kind of violation, like treason or illegal immigration, as Arpaio ended up doing, the department pulls resources from other violations, like rape and statutory rape, that are mostly violent crime with victims that want justice for the pain and suffering they endured by their neighbors. Those are the people that should be arrested, and the fortunate (or unfortunate) reality is that a lawful community will have officers that are not "productive".
pravda 9y ago
>"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. No it isn't! In New York City, of course there are arrest quotas. As a matter of fact, NYPD officers will arrest innocent people, on entirely trumped-up charges, just to make quota.
- mikestew 9y ago
  I’m not saying there’s a [citation needed] for every single claim someone makes, but good golly this sure would go better with a link to back what you’re saying.
  - pravda 9y ago
    Here ya go: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/nyregion/16narcotics.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/nyregion/16narcotics.html
CPLX 9y ago
Yeah, no. Arrest quotas are obviously and undeniably real, they've been documented numerous times in various contexts. The most recent major case of many such examples in NYC was the Adrian Schoolcraft case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft
lend000 9y ago
A ticket quota is the same principle, and those are apparently the norm.
Ironchefpython 9y ago
> "Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. This is incorrect. Almost every law enforcement organization in the United States tracks the number of arrests made by each officer, and there is ample evidence that this information is used when making personnel and staffing decisions. Also, many municipalities track arrests by organizational unit (in NYC it is per precinct), and when management (police chief) requires that mid-level management (commanding officer) "get their numbers up", you have exactly the same incentive to commit fraud that you see in places like Wells Fargo. Also, rather than taking my word for it, you should look at the many, many, many, many news articles that have been done on the subject. There's the first google hit (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/NYPD-Lieutenant-Says-There-Are-Quotas-I-Team-Wallace-374307721.html http://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/NYPD-Lieutenant-Say...), feel free to look at the first 200 search results for corroborating reports.

mschuster91 9y ago

Lol they're common in other parts of the world too, e.g. in Germany. They dont officially exist, rather informally, and end up in the UN complaining about racial profiling by cops. Pro tip, avoid German train stations if you're not white.

Koshkin 9y ago
Do you mean "avoid loitering at train stations" or "avoid using trains"?
- raverbashing 9y ago
  Loitering, pickpocketing, begging, etc But somehow enforcement of the law is "oppression"
  - gambiting 9y ago
    If the law is broad enough that the law can be "enforced" and used to arrest anyone at any given time for almost any reason, then yes, it absolutely is oppression.
- mschuster91 9y ago
  > Do you mean "avoid loitering at train stations" or "avoid using trains"? Avoid using the major traffic hubs. No joke. Cops here will even fleece you on the spot sometimes if you're black. They seem to believe that all black or rasta wearing persons are dope dealers.

rhizome 9y ago

In the US, law enforcement is both an industry and a market.

Koshkin 9y ago
What isn't??
- rhizome 9y ago
  I'm much less concerned with that question than whether or not it should be this way. Personally, I'm not given to throwing my hands up with a "capitalism amirite?"