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It baffles me the amount of misinformation given to the public in the West. A deliberate attempt to mislead and misguide people to further an agenda of violence

It baffles me the amount of misinformation given to the public in the West. A deliberate attempt to mislead and misguide people to further an agenda of violence, coup, and war. Haven't we learned anything from Iraq War? If a country is not submitting your requests and taking care of their own business is enough to be painted as dictatorship. One truth in an articles is mixed with 10 other lies. There are so many one finds oneself overwhelmed.

maxxxxx 9y ago
Not sure what you are trying to say. Can you be more specific?
- mengibar10 9y ago
  One example. The mentioned Imam Hatip schools were a headway for religious education after a very heavy secularization of the country. It was just an alternative to ultra secular education system so people could send their children to have them get some religious education. They were never meant to train preachers only. Their graduates have become anything but preachers mostly. In my family there are physicians, lawyers, engineers who attended that school (Alas, I did not). In the article it is presented as if these schools are training ultra religious people even "Jihadist" in the sense Western conception has these day. That is the biggest lie and misdirection. These schools are actually anti-thesis of such movements like people who join ISIS. The fundamental reason is that they teach religion, and if one knows Islam as it should be one can not join such groups. For example, The coup attempt executed by Gulenist (a pseudo-religious modern looking power hungry group) have been against these schools. Because these schools were teaching Islam as opposed to a version filled with superstitions, like believing the Gulen himself (the leader of the group) is Mahdi to put the world in order. During the coup attempt they have killed over 250 ordinary citizens. They shot to crowds from helicopter gunships. Due to their so called religious understanding those killed were killed for a greater good anyway or deserved such death. Do you see any resemblance to ISIS? They are more dangerous than ISIS though, at least those thugs show their true color unlike Gulenists. Where there's lack of proper education and understanding of religion there will always be someone to abuse it. Painting these schools as if training jihadists is nothing but disservice to the public.
brownbat 9y ago
> Haven't we learned anything from Iraq War? If a country is not submitting your requests and taking care of their own business is enough to be painted as dictatorship. You can watch the moment Saddam seized power on YouTube. He walks into the parliament then starts having people dragged away by the army as traitors while he smiles and smokes a cigar. Within minutes people are standing and saluting, screaming his praises over the commotion, saying they would do anything for him as a way to beg for their lives. The descent of democracy to fascism in moments, it's one of the most chilling things I've ever watched. You can argue the case for war was full of holes. You can criticize its execution, debathification, or the more than a decade of chaos the country has faced since, and how the US has failed to live up to its commitments there. There are thousands of critiques you could raise where I would shrug, not bat an eye. Iraq was just "painted" as a dictatorship though? How many political opponents does one have to summarily execute to qualify as a "real" dictatorship for you?
- mengibar10 9y ago
  Iraq war killed over half a million people. That was in 2006. We still live with the turmoil it created. Who the hell are you to cause such a death rate? You saw a video and it was chilling huh? Have you seen videos of Abu Ghraib? Iraq was NOT invaded because Saddam was a dictator. Saddam was a dictator when Donald Rumsfeld was still his best buddy (yes he was!) or State department officials were shaking his hands. You're missing the point completely.
  - brownbat 9y ago
    > Who the hell are you to cause such a death rate? You said Saddam was just "minding his own business" and merely "painted as a dictator." I point out Saddam was a dictator, according to incontrovertible video evidence. In response, you're blaming me personally for all the deaths in Iraq since the war. ... Actually, I'm not even mad. That's amazing. Your response was like moving the goalposts and tu quoque and ad hominem all rolled together times a thousand. Well played sir, I give up, the round is yours.
woodandsteel 9y ago
>It baffles me the amount of misinformation given to the public in the West. A deliberate attempt to mislead and misguide people to further an agenda of violence, coup, and war. You give us no specifics about what the article says that is not true. I guess that's because you don't have any. In particular, is it really your view that Erdogan is not making Turkey far more Islamic than it was? And would you oppose or support that?

maxxxxx 9y ago

Not sure what you are trying to say. Can you be more specific?

mengibar10 9y ago
One example. The mentioned Imam Hatip schools were a headway for religious education after a very heavy secularization of the country. It was just an alternative to ultra secular education system so people could send their children to have them get some religious education. They were never meant to train preachers only. Their graduates have become anything but preachers mostly. In my family there are physicians, lawyers, engineers who attended that school (Alas, I did not). In the article it is presented as if these schools are training ultra religious people even "Jihadist" in the sense Western conception has these day. That is the biggest lie and misdirection. These schools are actually anti-thesis of such movements like people who join ISIS. The fundamental reason is that they teach religion, and if one knows Islam as it should be one can not join such groups. For example, The coup attempt executed by Gulenist (a pseudo-religious modern looking power hungry group) have been against these schools. Because these schools were teaching Islam as opposed to a version filled with superstitions, like believing the Gulen himself (the leader of the group) is Mahdi to put the world in order. During the coup attempt they have killed over 250 ordinary citizens. They shot to crowds from helicopter gunships. Due to their so called religious understanding those killed were killed for a greater good anyway or deserved such death. Do you see any resemblance to ISIS? They are more dangerous than ISIS though, at least those thugs show their true color unlike Gulenists. Where there's lack of proper education and understanding of religion there will always be someone to abuse it. Painting these schools as if training jihadists is nothing but disservice to the public.

brownbat 9y ago

> Haven't we learned anything from Iraq War? If a country is not submitting your requests and taking care of their own business is enough to be painted as dictatorship. You can watch the moment Saddam seized power on YouTube. He walks into the parliament then starts having people dragged away by the army as traitors while he smiles and smokes a cigar. Within minutes people are standing and saluting, screaming his praises over the commotion, saying they would do anything for him as a way to beg for their lives. The descent of democracy to fascism in moments, it's one of the most chilling things I've ever watched. You can argue the case for war was full of holes. You can criticize its execution, debathification, or the more than a decade of chaos the country has faced since, and how the US has failed to live up to its commitments there. There are thousands of critiques you could raise where I would shrug, not bat an eye. Iraq was just "painted" as a dictatorship though? How many political opponents does one have to summarily execute to qualify as a "real" dictatorship for you?

mengibar10 9y ago
Iraq war killed over half a million people. That was in 2006. We still live with the turmoil it created. Who the hell are you to cause such a death rate? You saw a video and it was chilling huh? Have you seen videos of Abu Ghraib? Iraq was NOT invaded because Saddam was a dictator. Saddam was a dictator when Donald Rumsfeld was still his best buddy (yes he was!) or State department officials were shaking his hands. You're missing the point completely.
- brownbat 9y ago
  > Who the hell are you to cause such a death rate? You said Saddam was just "minding his own business" and merely "painted as a dictator." I point out Saddam was a dictator, according to incontrovertible video evidence. In response, you're blaming me personally for all the deaths in Iraq since the war. ... Actually, I'm not even mad. That's amazing. Your response was like moving the goalposts and tu quoque and ad hominem all rolled together times a thousand. Well played sir, I give up, the round is yours.

woodandsteel 9y ago

>It baffles me the amount of misinformation given to the public in the West. A deliberate attempt to mislead and misguide people to further an agenda of violence, coup, and war. You give us no specifics about what the article says that is not true. I guess that's because you don't have any. In particular, is it really your view that Erdogan is not making Turkey far more Islamic than it was? And would you oppose or support that?