5 ms·

How then in Sweden we have a startup boom?

by diminish 9y ago

ThomPete 9y ago
Because it has nothing to do with the Jante Law. Those who succeed don't comply to it.
- imartin2k 9y ago
  That's actually a pretty good question, in my opinion. I don't have an answer but it appears initially to be a contradiction. However, obviously it is not. Importantly one should not take these principles literally. Few to no people do this today. I disagree with that few comply. Like with a lot of cultural norms, the compliance with Jante is often happening subconsciously. When a Swedish founder on stage makes a joke about herself/himself (and thereby becomes instantly likeable), that could be one result of Jante.
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    I didn't say few comply. I said that those few who are successful don't comply :) Pretty important distinction.
    - imartin2k 9y ago
      You are right, that was my fault, thanks for pointing that out. I still would disagree though. As a German in Sweden I see a lot of compliance with Jante among people who express aversion against Jante. One can be humble, not too self-absorbed and not consider oneself the best and most important person on this planet (aka showing basic compliance with Jante), and still be successful. I'd argue that this might even be the way to go for sustainable "growing the pie for everyone" success.
- Grustaf 9y ago
  Sure they do, at least some of them. People frown upon anyone, including billionaires, who is too full of themselves, and I think you can definitely tell the difference if you compare the 1% in Scandinavia with places such as New York. An anecdote will illustrate what I mean. My mother was at the pharmacy once, and as the lady at the register was explaining to the man in front of her how the discount system works, with stamps etc he listened politely and patiently. She couldn't have guessed that he was the owner of H&M, the 17th richest man in the world. The older I get and the more I travel the more I appreciate this aspect of life in Scandinavia and I don't think there is any indication that this has hampered growth or entrepreneurship, quite the opposite. The point is not that you shouldn't do your best, succeed and make a lot of money, it's about how you should behave if you do succeed.
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    Not sure I understand what you are arguing compared to what I said. Can you be a little more specific.
    - Grustaf 9y ago
      Maybe I misunderstood you, but it seems you're saying that people _either_ "comply" with Jante or succeed, but my point was that Jante, broadly understood, affects even successful people. Sure, if you take it literally then I suppose it would stop people from succeeding but the way I see it "Jante" is what explains the relative humility of many successful Scandinavians. In a way it's just a flippant way to describe the (downsides of) the Nordic egalitarianism, as argued eloquently elsewhere. So in that sense there is no real opposition between Sweden being full of successful entrepreneurs while enforcing Jante.
      - ThomPete 9y ago
        Humility is not what Jante Law is about. Jante Law is about conformity. You definitely don't have to live in Scandinavia to be a humble millionaire or even billionaire. In fact, one could argue that the successful people in Scandinavia are humble because of the fear of the Jante Law. All I was saying is that people who are successful mostly ignore the Jante Law otherwise they wouldn't try to become successful, to begin with. None of this is an exact science of course.
        Grustaf 9y ago
        >In fact, one could argue that the successful people in Scandinavia are humble because of the fear of the Jante Law. This is pretty much what I _am_ arguing.
        ThomPete 9y ago
        Ok, not sure how that contradicts what I said which was about becoming successful not about how you deal with the law.
Klockan 9y ago
The end result is that people demands more proof before accepting that your idea is exceptional. I'd guess that this could reduce noise making it easier to focus on relevant startups.
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Or simply a case of "shut up and do it". Never mind that the "laws" were formulated as a caricature of small town behavior by a known misanthrope. They are not and never have been a formal guiding principle for Scandinavian thought.

How then in Sweden we have a startup boom?

ThomPete 9y ago

Because it has nothing to do with the Jante Law. Those who succeed don't comply to it.

imartin2k 9y ago
That's actually a pretty good question, in my opinion. I don't have an answer but it appears initially to be a contradiction. However, obviously it is not. Importantly one should not take these principles literally. Few to no people do this today. I disagree with that few comply. Like with a lot of cultural norms, the compliance with Jante is often happening subconsciously. When a Swedish founder on stage makes a joke about herself/himself (and thereby becomes instantly likeable), that could be one result of Jante.
- ThomPete 9y ago
  I didn't say few comply. I said that those few who are successful don't comply :) Pretty important distinction.
  - imartin2k 9y ago
    You are right, that was my fault, thanks for pointing that out. I still would disagree though. As a German in Sweden I see a lot of compliance with Jante among people who express aversion against Jante. One can be humble, not too self-absorbed and not consider oneself the best and most important person on this planet (aka showing basic compliance with Jante), and still be successful. I'd argue that this might even be the way to go for sustainable "growing the pie for everyone" success.
Grustaf 9y ago
Sure they do, at least some of them. People frown upon anyone, including billionaires, who is too full of themselves, and I think you can definitely tell the difference if you compare the 1% in Scandinavia with places such as New York. An anecdote will illustrate what I mean. My mother was at the pharmacy once, and as the lady at the register was explaining to the man in front of her how the discount system works, with stamps etc he listened politely and patiently. She couldn't have guessed that he was the owner of H&M, the 17th richest man in the world. The older I get and the more I travel the more I appreciate this aspect of life in Scandinavia and I don't think there is any indication that this has hampered growth or entrepreneurship, quite the opposite. The point is not that you shouldn't do your best, succeed and make a lot of money, it's about how you should behave if you do succeed.
- ThomPete 9y ago
  Not sure I understand what you are arguing compared to what I said. Can you be a little more specific.
  - Grustaf 9y ago
    Maybe I misunderstood you, but it seems you're saying that people _either_ "comply" with Jante or succeed, but my point was that Jante, broadly understood, affects even successful people. Sure, if you take it literally then I suppose it would stop people from succeeding but the way I see it "Jante" is what explains the relative humility of many successful Scandinavians. In a way it's just a flippant way to describe the (downsides of) the Nordic egalitarianism, as argued eloquently elsewhere. So in that sense there is no real opposition between Sweden being full of successful entrepreneurs while enforcing Jante.
    - ThomPete 9y ago
      Humility is not what Jante Law is about. Jante Law is about conformity. You definitely don't have to live in Scandinavia to be a humble millionaire or even billionaire. In fact, one could argue that the successful people in Scandinavia are humble because of the fear of the Jante Law. All I was saying is that people who are successful mostly ignore the Jante Law otherwise they wouldn't try to become successful, to begin with. None of this is an exact science of course.
      - Grustaf 9y ago
        >In fact, one could argue that the successful people in Scandinavia are humble because of the fear of the Jante Law. This is pretty much what I _am_ arguing.
        ThomPete 9y ago
        Ok, not sure how that contradicts what I said which was about becoming successful not about how you deal with the law.

Klockan 9y ago

The end result is that people demands more proof before accepting that your idea is exceptional. I'd guess that this could reduce noise making it easier to focus on relevant startups.

digi_owl 9y ago
Or simply a case of "shut up and do it". Never mind that the "laws" were formulated as a caricature of small town behavior by a known misanthrope. They are not and never have been a formal guiding principle for Scandinavian thought.