4 ms·

(disclaimer: I'm self taught, did a few months of University but couldn't afford more - dirt poor family). I'm a little confused(and more than a bit shocked),

(disclaimer: I'm self taught, did a few months of University but couldn't afford more - dirt poor family). I'm a little confused(and more than a bit shocked), isn't this what University is suppose to teach? I agree with the author about mentoring and passing on experience(infact as soon as I have reliable net I'll be checking out his links in that article, and any previous posts he has made), but how can you pass any course without learning the basics of a switch statement. Although I do admit in guilty of copy/pasting some code I have gotten online :-p (purely just to get-shit-moving again when I'm stuck, I'll always refactor later to learn how it works exactly). Unless I'm missing something (hell I would kill for a junior dev job without the expense of University :-p), how did these juniors pass their exams?

viiralvx 9y ago
That's the thing. If they went to school for Computer Science, depending on the program, we aren't necessarily taught how to code. More about how to think and solve problems. I never had to use a switch statement in my Algorithms or Data Structures course. I learned how to write tests after pairing with a person from Twitter on some Rails work a few years back. He randomly saw me testing things manually and then he was like, "Let me show you how to write tests for this so you don't have to waste time manually testing." And I've just written tests since then. But my University never taught us how to write tests for our code. Some professors gave us a test suite for our code to run against as a sanity check, but that's about it. I became a better software engineer through great mentorship and building stuff in my free time.
- marak830 9y ago
  That's actually really surprising. Thank you for your input. I had assumed it would have been -teach basics of code, explain the thinking behind it and why to use certain things at such time, then slowly expand upon that. Hmm certanly something for me to think about.
  - gnaritas 9y ago
    You're confusing programming with computer science, they are not remotely the same thing.
    - marak830 9y ago
      (honest question, just Incase it comes off as sarcastic). How would you get a job a job as a junior dev without any form of dev training. Side note: how could you be a Dev without knowing the fundamentals of how to code? I looked up a computer science course (https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00sc-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-spring-2011/syllabus/ https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-compu...) Which seems to cover some programming. Surely something such as a switch statement would be included? Edit: fixed course link.
      - gnaritas 9y ago
        > How would you get a job a job as a junior dev without any form of dev training. By demonstrating the skill of computer programming, a skill you can teach yourself at home anytime; you do not need on the job experience to gain this skill. When I hire devs, I give them a toy problem to solve at home on their own time, and then I base my decision to hire on the potential I see in their solution. I don't care about experience, I don't read their resumes, I simply judge them based on the solution they provide. Surprisingly, those with little experience and a natural aptitude generally write much better code than those with experience who aren't really cut out for the job but made a career out of it anyway and could solve any problem you give them. It's easier to train the first guy, than to teach the second guy how to be better. > Side note: how could you be a Dev without knowing the fundamentals of how to code? Learning to code requires neither a job, nor a degree; it merely requires the desire to learn and access to the internet. Computer science isn't about programming though you need to learn some programming to do it, it's about computation and what it can do and can't do and what the fundamental limits of computation are and how to understand them and measure them. Computer science is the physics of programming; Computer science is to programming what physics is to engineering. Computer scientists create knowledge about computing, computer programmers use that knowledge to build things.

viiralvx 9y ago

That's the thing. If they went to school for Computer Science, depending on the program, we aren't necessarily taught how to code. More about how to think and solve problems. I never had to use a switch statement in my Algorithms or Data Structures course. I learned how to write tests after pairing with a person from Twitter on some Rails work a few years back. He randomly saw me testing things manually and then he was like, "Let me show you how to write tests for this so you don't have to waste time manually testing." And I've just written tests since then. But my University never taught us how to write tests for our code. Some professors gave us a test suite for our code to run against as a sanity check, but that's about it. I became a better software engineer through great mentorship and building stuff in my free time.

marak830 9y ago
That's actually really surprising. Thank you for your input. I had assumed it would have been -teach basics of code, explain the thinking behind it and why to use certain things at such time, then slowly expand upon that. Hmm certanly something for me to think about.
- gnaritas 9y ago
  You're confusing programming with computer science, they are not remotely the same thing.
  - marak830 9y ago
    (honest question, just Incase it comes off as sarcastic). How would you get a job a job as a junior dev without any form of dev training. Side note: how could you be a Dev without knowing the fundamentals of how to code? I looked up a computer science course (https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00sc-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-spring-2011/syllabus/ https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-compu...) Which seems to cover some programming. Surely something such as a switch statement would be included? Edit: fixed course link.
    - gnaritas 9y ago
      > How would you get a job a job as a junior dev without any form of dev training. By demonstrating the skill of computer programming, a skill you can teach yourself at home anytime; you do not need on the job experience to gain this skill. When I hire devs, I give them a toy problem to solve at home on their own time, and then I base my decision to hire on the potential I see in their solution. I don't care about experience, I don't read their resumes, I simply judge them based on the solution they provide. Surprisingly, those with little experience and a natural aptitude generally write much better code than those with experience who aren't really cut out for the job but made a career out of it anyway and could solve any problem you give them. It's easier to train the first guy, than to teach the second guy how to be better. > Side note: how could you be a Dev without knowing the fundamentals of how to code? Learning to code requires neither a job, nor a degree; it merely requires the desire to learn and access to the internet. Computer science isn't about programming though you need to learn some programming to do it, it's about computation and what it can do and can't do and what the fundamental limits of computation are and how to understand them and measure them. Computer science is the physics of programming; Computer science is to programming what physics is to engineering. Computer scientists create knowledge about computing, computer programmers use that knowledge to build things.