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It's a weird coincidence to read this. I was doing basic research on depression and saw that dopamine played a role in helping people feel good. One WikiHow art

It's a weird coincidence to read this. I was doing basic research on depression and saw that dopamine played a role in helping people feel good. One WikiHow article [0] later, I had an idea: Start reaching goals. I started very small, like taking progressively longer walks. Since that time I have earned something like five different certificates in various areas of interest (ARRL coming up next) and as a very recent development, completed my university degree after 15 years of delay due to, among other things, depression. I find that depression can still affect me, but the episodes don't last as long (around 2h max, lately) and I have a bunch of tools for dealing with them. [0] http://m.wikihow.com/Increase-Dopamine http://m.wikihow.com/Increase-Dopamine

diminish 9y ago
Great idea. I usually make checklists for small things when I feel lost and achieve them and feel accomplished. Things like "check x", "read about xx", 'backup file", "congratulate people with birthdays on FB" When i mark them as done I feel better.
- 123jay7 9y ago
  I think we're fucked as a society if this is what it's come to. Grown adults making checklists to make them selves feel better. Jesus Christ....
davymac 9y ago
This works very well for low-grade depression for sure. There seems to be a threshold where this type of intervention becomes completely ineffective (personal experience).
- themodelplumber 9y ago
  I agree. From keeping logs over the last few years, severe depression was more likely to occur due to e.g. not enough sleep or just illness, and in those cases accomplishments were impossible. Rest was it, and I felt lucky if I could get good rest before acting on any depressing thoughts or ruminations. So I wouldn't call goal-reaching a standalone cure; far from it. Also there's the fact that people accept/reject potentially helpful information based on different criteria, from very rational (is it in a reputable journal) to irrational (do I like the person who gave the information) to incredibly subjective (did I think of it on my own?). So the idea of "why not try accomplishment" may be doomed from the start, due to factors outside of the advisor's control.
  - davymac 9y ago
    I noticed that rest only somewhat helped, but was significantly more effective if absent of any worry of external responsibilities. E.g. If I took vacation from work and didn’t tell my girlfriend about it so she wouldn’t worry about me and text me incessantly... I could turn off the thoughts/worries of the outside world completely for a few days and that made a pretty dramatic difference. I didn’t cure me at all, but it took me out of the really dangerous zone after about 2 days. Also, sleeping in a hammock, haha. So much better than breathing stale air for 2 days. This is more circumstantial however, as my trigger at the time was accumulating too many perceived responsibilities and fearing failure. To be honest I feel the triggers are nearly irrelevant, but removing myself from them gives me enough temporary relief for my body to get out of stress mode. Which in turn removes some of the depressive overhead to give myself a golden window of opportunity.
- bnjms 9y ago
  Absolutely, but don't let this caveat stop you from considering this sort of advice if your depression has crossed that threshold. For those of us who have been there it's little strategies like this that keep us from crossing that threshold for too long.
  - eradicatethots 9y ago
    As someone who’s been there, these tricks and tips make things worse, not better. Most depression advice is pretty terrible, this thread included.
    - bnjms 9y ago
      My point is that people have to figure out what helps themselves. All of the terrible advice amounts to knowing there are people who have learned to manage themselves and therefore most people can learn to manage themselves.
      - davymac 9y ago
        Fair point. I like this view. Seeing all the anecdotal ways people have gotten themselves out of severe episodes may not work for the person seeking help, but it may give them enough hope to keep looking for the next approach before calling it quits for good.
        eradicatethots 9y ago
        Don’t really think there are that many. The vast majority are some form of “work out, eat healthy, ...”
        throwaway197812 9y ago
        I agree. It's clear from this thread (and it fits with my experience as well) that the usual advice only goes so far, and for obvious reasons: if I had enough energy, motivation, and discipline to work out, eat healthy, meditate, whatever -- all the standard advice for lifting my mood -- I wouldn't be depressed! I've been wondering lately if there isn't a model of care that goes beyond just a psychiatrist (to prescribe the meds) and a therapist (to administer therapy along with the standard advice about exercise and eating well). Something more like a "nanny" or a caretaker who could help the patient with those things: bug the patient daily to make sure they're taking their meds (and/or supplements, if you're going that route); buy and cook that nice healthy food; get you out of the house and into the gym; etc. Something more than just seeing a therapist once a week, but less intensive than any form of institutional care (even on an outpatient basis). Asking for a friend... :(
mcguire 9y ago
Do you not discover that even a minor failure to reach a goal leaves you with feelings of disappointment, anger, and rejection that make it difficult to re-start the process of working towards the goal?
- themodelplumber 9y ago
  Prior to learning to analyze, yes, I did feel that way. In fact I was swallowed up by those feelings quite often, for years. After learning more about analysis, not so much. Analytical thinking is more tactical and adaptive. It says, "forget about the big picture of who you are and what this says about you, and just focus on what this situation seems to demand. Which changes would seem to give you the most leverage on your next try?" So I'd try different things the next time and kind of keep a log, asking how it was all working. "Star date..." I was Jean-luc Picard and today was another episode. An internal monologue helped. Tactical / analytical thinkers are good negotiators. I began to admire those who were in it to _win_ it, not just to give it a shot and see what happened. I followed study blogs and watched presentations by negotiators. For all they knew, if they failed at reaching a goal, it was the goal's fault! This was a real reset to my thinking. I also have a son who is a very gifted tactical thinker. He's constantly analyzing and negotiating. Analyzing his behavior, I've learned that he will ask again and again until you get sick of him asking for things. The asking comes at little cost to him and there's a good chance that the asked will give in. So: I'm more of an asker now. And I find that I accomplish more as a result. I don't mean to communicate that I'm perfect, some kind of ubermensch, btw. Just sharing what I've learned. Also, I don't think this advice will work for everybody, but I hope it can help you somehow.

diminish 9y ago

Great idea. I usually make checklists for small things when I feel lost and achieve them and feel accomplished. Things like "check x", "read about xx", 'backup file", "congratulate people with birthdays on FB" When i mark them as done I feel better.

123jay7 9y ago
I think we're fucked as a society if this is what it's come to. Grown adults making checklists to make them selves feel better. Jesus Christ....

davymac 9y ago

This works very well for low-grade depression for sure. There seems to be a threshold where this type of intervention becomes completely ineffective (personal experience).

themodelplumber 9y ago
I agree. From keeping logs over the last few years, severe depression was more likely to occur due to e.g. not enough sleep or just illness, and in those cases accomplishments were impossible. Rest was it, and I felt lucky if I could get good rest before acting on any depressing thoughts or ruminations. So I wouldn't call goal-reaching a standalone cure; far from it. Also there's the fact that people accept/reject potentially helpful information based on different criteria, from very rational (is it in a reputable journal) to irrational (do I like the person who gave the information) to incredibly subjective (did I think of it on my own?). So the idea of "why not try accomplishment" may be doomed from the start, due to factors outside of the advisor's control.
- davymac 9y ago
  I noticed that rest only somewhat helped, but was significantly more effective if absent of any worry of external responsibilities. E.g. If I took vacation from work and didn’t tell my girlfriend about it so she wouldn’t worry about me and text me incessantly... I could turn off the thoughts/worries of the outside world completely for a few days and that made a pretty dramatic difference. I didn’t cure me at all, but it took me out of the really dangerous zone after about 2 days. Also, sleeping in a hammock, haha. So much better than breathing stale air for 2 days. This is more circumstantial however, as my trigger at the time was accumulating too many perceived responsibilities and fearing failure. To be honest I feel the triggers are nearly irrelevant, but removing myself from them gives me enough temporary relief for my body to get out of stress mode. Which in turn removes some of the depressive overhead to give myself a golden window of opportunity.
bnjms 9y ago
Absolutely, but don't let this caveat stop you from considering this sort of advice if your depression has crossed that threshold. For those of us who have been there it's little strategies like this that keep us from crossing that threshold for too long.
- eradicatethots 9y ago
  As someone who’s been there, these tricks and tips make things worse, not better. Most depression advice is pretty terrible, this thread included.
  - bnjms 9y ago
    My point is that people have to figure out what helps themselves. All of the terrible advice amounts to knowing there are people who have learned to manage themselves and therefore most people can learn to manage themselves.
    - davymac 9y ago
      Fair point. I like this view. Seeing all the anecdotal ways people have gotten themselves out of severe episodes may not work for the person seeking help, but it may give them enough hope to keep looking for the next approach before calling it quits for good.
      - eradicatethots 9y ago
        Don’t really think there are that many. The vast majority are some form of “work out, eat healthy, ...”
        throwaway197812 9y ago
        I agree. It's clear from this thread (and it fits with my experience as well) that the usual advice only goes so far, and for obvious reasons: if I had enough energy, motivation, and discipline to work out, eat healthy, meditate, whatever -- all the standard advice for lifting my mood -- I wouldn't be depressed! I've been wondering lately if there isn't a model of care that goes beyond just a psychiatrist (to prescribe the meds) and a therapist (to administer therapy along with the standard advice about exercise and eating well). Something more like a "nanny" or a caretaker who could help the patient with those things: bug the patient daily to make sure they're taking their meds (and/or supplements, if you're going that route); buy and cook that nice healthy food; get you out of the house and into the gym; etc. Something more than just seeing a therapist once a week, but less intensive than any form of institutional care (even on an outpatient basis). Asking for a friend... :(

mcguire 9y ago

Do you not discover that even a minor failure to reach a goal leaves you with feelings of disappointment, anger, and rejection that make it difficult to re-start the process of working towards the goal?

themodelplumber 9y ago
Prior to learning to analyze, yes, I did feel that way. In fact I was swallowed up by those feelings quite often, for years. After learning more about analysis, not so much. Analytical thinking is more tactical and adaptive. It says, "forget about the big picture of who you are and what this says about you, and just focus on what this situation seems to demand. Which changes would seem to give you the most leverage on your next try?" So I'd try different things the next time and kind of keep a log, asking how it was all working. "Star date..." I was Jean-luc Picard and today was another episode. An internal monologue helped. Tactical / analytical thinkers are good negotiators. I began to admire those who were in it to _win_ it, not just to give it a shot and see what happened. I followed study blogs and watched presentations by negotiators. For all they knew, if they failed at reaching a goal, it was the goal's fault! This was a real reset to my thinking. I also have a son who is a very gifted tactical thinker. He's constantly analyzing and negotiating. Analyzing his behavior, I've learned that he will ask again and again until you get sick of him asking for things. The asking comes at little cost to him and there's a good chance that the asked will give in. So: I'm more of an asker now. And I find that I accomplish more as a result. I don't mean to communicate that I'm perfect, some kind of ubermensch, btw. Just sharing what I've learned. Also, I don't think this advice will work for everybody, but I hope it can help you somehow.