6 ms·

As a French person: stop subsidizing corn, start subsidizing vegetables, stop eating take-out. If you look at a middle-class supermarket in France and in the U

As a French person: stop subsidizing corn, start subsidizing vegetables, stop eating take-out. If you look at a middle-class supermarket in France and in the US you understand why your poor are obese pretty quickly.

craftyguy 9y ago
Not just France, but most European countries.. every time I travel in Europe there's always this initial realization that I'm no longer surrounded by obese people. None of the places I've been to over there encourage the same eating habits that you find prevalent in the US.
- jdavis703 9y ago
  Well portion sizes are smaller, but most people walk, bike or transit to work. For example this week I haven't done any exercise due to a "sports"-related injury, and yet managed to burn an average of 2571 calories -- and before you think I'm lucky to live near work, my one-way commute is 30 miles. Even just 40 minutes of daily physical activity built into a commute can make a huge difference.
  - craftyguy 9y ago
    Oh yea, totally. I bicycle to work almost every day (it's ~6 mi one way), but I'm lucky enough to live in a location with decent cycling infrastructure. I think another aspect of why most folks drive here (the US) is because a lot of locations have little or no infrastructure for getting around without a car. In the area where I am originally from (different part of US), you'd get smashed by cars pretty fast because you'd be forced to travel on highways/freeways.
- chrisper 9y ago
  It does not help that in the US (or at least in California) you have to drive everywhere. I live in Europe now, but when I lived in the US I barley walked anywhere since it was just too far. In Europe I do not even own a car anymore. Most things can be done with a bike, by foot, or by public transport. For a few things where I prefer a car, I just use car sharing. So now I am way more active every day. And thanks to certain trains always be running late, I am running at least once a day as well!
- tomp 9y ago
  Don't worry, obesity rates are going up in Europe as well, so we'll soon be just like the US!
- 21 9y ago
  Besides different eating habits, one of the reasons is that there is a huge stigma of being obese in most of Europe. The fact that it is relatively rare makes any such person stand out even more, and makes it harder to justify (since your peers somehow manage to keep their weight in check)
jdavis703 9y ago
The food we have in the U.S., particularly in low-income areas is atrocious. However there are a lot of excuses being made about obesity, including that it's caused by poverty. Yes poverty is a component, but the obesity epidemic is striking all income groups, with no particular correlation to income [0]. It's more about the diet and exercise choices that people choose to make, include the middle class and upper class who most definitely have the ability to make choices around the food and beverages they consume. Further many of the most wasteful calories are not caused by high-sodium, high-fat processed foods but by excess sugar consumption in the form of sugary drinks. Switching to water, black coffee, or unsweetened tea could help the "Big Gulp" demographic big time. 0: http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486733 http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullart...
- Mz 9y ago
  Almost everyone in the US is a prisoner of their car. Our built environment presumes that you have a car. We make it very challenging to live without one. And then we have to listen to Stephen Hawking be judgy about how we "choose" to not be active, which he can't understand from his wheelchair. Most Americans are confined to a wheeled chair for many hours a week. We just call it a car, but good luck getting free of it. (I have lived without a car for about a decade, so this comment is not expressing discontent with me feeling trapped. I escaped that trap and walking everywhere has helped me shed a lot of weight without intending to.)
  - sametmax 9y ago
    Half of the problem is not the infrastructure, but peoples priorities and the public perception of the pros/cons of a car. Also the value of the car as a symbol. A couple will make 3 kids and say "I can't do without a car". But the couple never ponder the cost of making a family. The fact or having a car or not, and other matters of life style, are an after thoughs. And if you raise the issue, you are a cold robot for thinking that way instead of with your "heart".
    - Mz 9y ago
simplyluke 9y ago
I think it's a deeper cultural issue than that. Look at how much more expensive cigarettes are in France and the graphical warning labels that accompany them and then look at how much more commonplace smoking is in France, particularly among the youth. Regulations don't change cultures to nearly the effect many want them to.
sametmax 9y ago
Not sure we should be giving advice. Our situation has worsen during the last 15 years. The quality of food is going down (and the prices for good food up), the health habits are too. Not in the same proportion of the US yet, but it's significant. Compared to my parents or grand parent generation, the new ones: - spend much more time seated; - spend much more time in front of a screen; - have much less people knowing how to cook. Or choose tasty fruits or vegetable for that matters, and hence they believe good food taste like crap. - have more fat people, especially young ones; - eat less home made food; - consume more cereals, dairies, meat and refined sugar and less vegetables or fruits; - eat more, and more often; - consume products with less nutritional density, and a bigger concentration of additives of all sorts; - eat while doing something else, faster, with less mastication. So clearly our society is starting to fail on the health part as well.
- thatfrenchguy 9y ago
  Source here ?
  - Simon_says 9y ago
    Source: I know it. You know it. Everybody knows it.
chiefalchemist 9y ago
Yes and no. I live in the USA. I shop in a few different supermarket each catering to a particular class (if you will). Mind you, the overall selection reflects the income level the store serves. But that doesn't completely explain what goes into the carts. Long to short, I'm not so sure the less well to do are making decisions that keep them healthy. Soda, ice cream, sugary cereals, etc. These things are in the upper class stores aw well, but it seem less people are interested. I agree with you. But I want to added that the consumers' choices factor in as well.
- egwynn 9y ago
  The way I’ve heard it explained is that poor people will base their grocery purchases based on price, and that gets to GP’s point about not subsidizing corn. The reasoning goes: cheap corn leads to low-end food being filled with corn syrup, which leads to poor people eating tons of sugar, which leads to health problems among poor people. The solution, under this scheme, is to help steer the schedule of food prices so that it’s cheaper for people to eat healthy food (eliminate corn subsidies).
  - chiefalchemist 9y ago
    Agree 100%! In fact approx 10+ yrs ago the NY Times Sunday mag ran an article that said what you just did. In short, corn subsidies lead to cheap sweeteners, and those to cheap (but frutose based) foods. Ironic that cities (e.g., Philadelphia) have a (so called) sugar drink tax" but their tax dollars (via subsidies) were already used to lower the cost of those drinks. Ultimately, the consumer pays. The consumer always pays.
- ashark 9y ago
  Upper classes are socialized against sweet=good. That helps.
hrktb 9y ago
What does eating take-out have to do with obesity ?

craftyguy 9y ago

Not just France, but most European countries.. every time I travel in Europe there's always this initial realization that I'm no longer surrounded by obese people. None of the places I've been to over there encourage the same eating habits that you find prevalent in the US.

jdavis703 9y ago
Well portion sizes are smaller, but most people walk, bike or transit to work. For example this week I haven't done any exercise due to a "sports"-related injury, and yet managed to burn an average of 2571 calories -- and before you think I'm lucky to live near work, my one-way commute is 30 miles. Even just 40 minutes of daily physical activity built into a commute can make a huge difference.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  Oh yea, totally. I bicycle to work almost every day (it's ~6 mi one way), but I'm lucky enough to live in a location with decent cycling infrastructure. I think another aspect of why most folks drive here (the US) is because a lot of locations have little or no infrastructure for getting around without a car. In the area where I am originally from (different part of US), you'd get smashed by cars pretty fast because you'd be forced to travel on highways/freeways.
chrisper 9y ago
It does not help that in the US (or at least in California) you have to drive everywhere. I live in Europe now, but when I lived in the US I barley walked anywhere since it was just too far. In Europe I do not even own a car anymore. Most things can be done with a bike, by foot, or by public transport. For a few things where I prefer a car, I just use car sharing. So now I am way more active every day. And thanks to certain trains always be running late, I am running at least once a day as well!
tomp 9y ago
Don't worry, obesity rates are going up in Europe as well, so we'll soon be just like the US!
21 9y ago
Besides different eating habits, one of the reasons is that there is a huge stigma of being obese in most of Europe. The fact that it is relatively rare makes any such person stand out even more, and makes it harder to justify (since your peers somehow manage to keep their weight in check)

jdavis703 9y ago

The food we have in the U.S., particularly in low-income areas is atrocious. However there are a lot of excuses being made about obesity, including that it's caused by poverty. Yes poverty is a component, but the obesity epidemic is striking all income groups, with no particular correlation to income [0]. It's more about the diet and exercise choices that people choose to make, include the middle class and upper class who most definitely have the ability to make choices around the food and beverages they consume. Further many of the most wasteful calories are not caused by high-sodium, high-fat processed foods but by excess sugar consumption in the form of sugary drinks. Switching to water, black coffee, or unsweetened tea could help the "Big Gulp" demographic big time. 0: http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486733 http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullart...

Mz 9y ago
Almost everyone in the US is a prisoner of their car. Our built environment presumes that you have a car. We make it very challenging to live without one. And then we have to listen to Stephen Hawking be judgy about how we "choose" to not be active, which he can't understand from his wheelchair. Most Americans are confined to a wheeled chair for many hours a week. We just call it a car, but good luck getting free of it. (I have lived without a car for about a decade, so this comment is not expressing discontent with me feeling trapped. I escaped that trap and walking everywhere has helped me shed a lot of weight without intending to.)
- sametmax 9y ago
  Half of the problem is not the infrastructure, but peoples priorities and the public perception of the pros/cons of a car. Also the value of the car as a symbol. A couple will make 3 kids and say "I can't do without a car". But the couple never ponder the cost of making a family. The fact or having a car or not, and other matters of life style, are an after thoughs. And if you raise the issue, you are a cold robot for thinking that way instead of with your "heart".
  - Mz 9y ago

simplyluke 9y ago

I think it's a deeper cultural issue than that. Look at how much more expensive cigarettes are in France and the graphical warning labels that accompany them and then look at how much more commonplace smoking is in France, particularly among the youth. Regulations don't change cultures to nearly the effect many want them to.

sametmax 9y ago

Not sure we should be giving advice. Our situation has worsen during the last 15 years. The quality of food is going down (and the prices for good food up), the health habits are too. Not in the same proportion of the US yet, but it's significant. Compared to my parents or grand parent generation, the new ones: - spend much more time seated; - spend much more time in front of a screen; - have much less people knowing how to cook. Or choose tasty fruits or vegetable for that matters, and hence they believe good food taste like crap. - have more fat people, especially young ones; - eat less home made food; - consume more cereals, dairies, meat and refined sugar and less vegetables or fruits; - eat more, and more often; - consume products with less nutritional density, and a bigger concentration of additives of all sorts; - eat while doing something else, faster, with less mastication. So clearly our society is starting to fail on the health part as well.

thatfrenchguy 9y ago
Source here ?
- Simon_says 9y ago
  Source: I know it. You know it. Everybody knows it.

chiefalchemist 9y ago

Yes and no. I live in the USA. I shop in a few different supermarket each catering to a particular class (if you will). Mind you, the overall selection reflects the income level the store serves. But that doesn't completely explain what goes into the carts. Long to short, I'm not so sure the less well to do are making decisions that keep them healthy. Soda, ice cream, sugary cereals, etc. These things are in the upper class stores aw well, but it seem less people are interested. I agree with you. But I want to added that the consumers' choices factor in as well.

egwynn 9y ago
The way I’ve heard it explained is that poor people will base their grocery purchases based on price, and that gets to GP’s point about not subsidizing corn. The reasoning goes: cheap corn leads to low-end food being filled with corn syrup, which leads to poor people eating tons of sugar, which leads to health problems among poor people. The solution, under this scheme, is to help steer the schedule of food prices so that it’s cheaper for people to eat healthy food (eliminate corn subsidies).
- chiefalchemist 9y ago
  Agree 100%! In fact approx 10+ yrs ago the NY Times Sunday mag ran an article that said what you just did. In short, corn subsidies lead to cheap sweeteners, and those to cheap (but frutose based) foods. Ironic that cities (e.g., Philadelphia) have a (so called) sugar drink tax" but their tax dollars (via subsidies) were already used to lower the cost of those drinks. Ultimately, the consumer pays. The consumer always pays.
ashark 9y ago
Upper classes are socialized against sweet=good. That helps.

hrktb 9y ago

What does eating take-out have to do with obesity ?