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For 99% of folks outside the HN echo chamber, email works fine. Spam is a problem, but I've never heard or read of anyone who thinks email needs to go the way

by na85 9y ago

For 99% of folks outside the HN echo chamber, email works fine. Spam is a problem, but I've never heard or read of anyone who thinks email needs to go the way of the dodo except on this site.

AndyMcConachie 9y ago
I have no idea why you're downvoted. Email is great especially because it's an open standard. I don't understand why people expect Linux kernel development to adopt some kind of proprietary platform for communications. I think it's a terrible idea.
- na85 9y ago
  HN doesn't like to be reminded that this is an echo chamber. Dissent is not permitted. Interrupting the circle jerk is not permitted.
  - abiox 9y ago
    btw "echo chamber" is generally perceived as disparaging, so it's not weird people wouldn't be impressed by that. and feigning victimhood after antagonizing people is pretty gauche.
    - na85 9y ago
      It was intended to be disparaging: one of my major beefs with this community is the massive culture of groupthink and aggressive self reinforcement/adulation.
      - abiox 9y ago
        > It was intended to be disparaging and thus your thesis of 'HN doesn't like to be reminded' falls to the simpler explanation of 'trashtalk usually gets downvoted'.
        na85 9y ago
        Perhaps. I prefer to see it as the down votes reaffirming that I am correct.
        gsich 9y ago
        you are correct. if people get triggered by someone using the word "echo chamber" they are probably in one. It's hard to admit, I know.
        abiox 9y ago
        what do you mean by "get triggered"? if someone downvotes trashtalk, does it necessarily mean they "got triggered"? are there other explanations?
        gsich 9y ago
        Yes. Because it wasn't trashtalk. HN in generel seems (from what I observe) like a place that uses fancy apps for communication instead of emails. So if someone claims that HN doesn't like emails and get downvoted for that, they got triggered.
- digi_owl 9y ago
  On that note, a while back while browsing f-droid i noticed someone working on a email based IM app. Never mind that "text messaging" in say Japan has been email based since virtually forever, since the SMS standard had issues with Japanese script.
- abiox 9y ago
  trashing a community doesn't often get upvotes. perhaps if you were really funny or clever about it.
Tharkun 9y ago
I'm having a really hard time getting my friends to email me. They want me to use awful garbage like FB Messenger or Whatsapp instead.
- gkya 9y ago
  Sometimes one needs to adapt to the outer world :) I use Whatsapp even though I hate instant messaging and phone calls (I like communicating at my own pace when not face-to-face, and I dislike any sorts of smalltalk on the phone or messaging), because communication is a two-way street, and sometimes conforming is easier. I disable last-online and blue ticks in Whatsapp so it's more e-mail like, definitely improves the experience.
kcorbitt 9y ago
Eh. If you were to measure the percentage of personal communication that users of this forum conduct over email as opposed to other mediums (Whatsapp, FB Messenger, iMessage, etc.), I bet you'd find it indexes way higher than the general population.
erikbye 9y ago
Email is the pinnacle of human communication. Without notifications, which I, of course, do not use, email is the least intrusive and least disrupting way someone can contact me. I simply check my email when I feel like it, which is about two times daily, morning and sometime late evening. Then, even when I look at my email, I don't have to respond. I don't have to do anything. And if there's an email I want to reply to, I won't necessarily do so right now. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe never. The best part is the record of all communications and the fact that you have a searchable archive. Man, I wish I could search all my other conversations with people. In fact, I think I should just start recording everything, every day, all the time, and convert the audio to text.
- gsich 9y ago
  It is also the pinnacle of interoperability. Nowadays, two apps in the appstore can't send messages between each other, because reasons. With email you have compatibility between so many vendors, devices, programs, programming languages ... everything is compatible. It is THE standard.
- u801e 9y ago
  > Email is the pinnacle of human communication. For one to one or one to many types of communication, I agree. Email, in my opinion, breaks down when there's a discussion amongst multiple people. For instance, you have to make sure that everyone in the discussion addresses are added by your MUA before clicking the reply button (or using the equivalent keyboard command). The other problem is that if you need to include a new person in an existing discussion, they won't have any of the previous messages to refer to (other than what happens to be quoted in the email they receive). Newsgroups, on the other hand, address the issues I mentioned and are just as good as email in communication IMO.
- spc476 9y ago
  There's a chap by the name of Ted Nelson who's been working on that for the past 50 years. Unfortunately, the problem is a bit harder than it looks.
- keithpeter 9y ago
  "In fact, I think I should just start recording everything, every day, all the time, and convert the audio to text." About a decade or perhaps 15 years ago in Birmingham UK, the Ikon gallery had a multi-artist exhibition of a conceptual nature. one of the artists had used a micro-cassette recorder to record every word he uttered over a week and then had the tapes transcribed by audio-typists. The results where exhibited as an impressively high stack of A4 sheets. Unfortunately, they were, apart from a few sample sheets on the wall, piled in a glass case thus preventing viewers from sampling the text. I was taking bets on the sheets that were hidden from view being blank. The artist also exhibited the micro-cassette recorder and tapes used. Google has nothing to say about the exhibit, but it has to be said my memory is a bit short on key words. A sibling post mentioned Ted Nelson.

by na85 9y ago

For 99% of folks outside the HN echo chamber, email works fine. Spam is a problem, but I've never heard or read of anyone who thinks email needs to go the way of the dodo except on this site.

AndyMcConachie 9y ago

I have no idea why you're downvoted. Email is great especially because it's an open standard. I don't understand why people expect Linux kernel development to adopt some kind of proprietary platform for communications. I think it's a terrible idea.

na85 9y ago
HN doesn't like to be reminded that this is an echo chamber. Dissent is not permitted. Interrupting the circle jerk is not permitted.
- abiox 9y ago
  btw "echo chamber" is generally perceived as disparaging, so it's not weird people wouldn't be impressed by that. and feigning victimhood after antagonizing people is pretty gauche.
  - na85 9y ago
    It was intended to be disparaging: one of my major beefs with this community is the massive culture of groupthink and aggressive self reinforcement/adulation.
    - abiox 9y ago
      > It was intended to be disparaging and thus your thesis of 'HN doesn't like to be reminded' falls to the simpler explanation of 'trashtalk usually gets downvoted'.
      - na85 9y ago
        Perhaps. I prefer to see it as the down votes reaffirming that I am correct.
        gsich 9y ago
        you are correct. if people get triggered by someone using the word "echo chamber" they are probably in one. It's hard to admit, I know.
        abiox 9y ago
        what do you mean by "get triggered"? if someone downvotes trashtalk, does it necessarily mean they "got triggered"? are there other explanations?
        gsich 9y ago
        Yes. Because it wasn't trashtalk. HN in generel seems (from what I observe) like a place that uses fancy apps for communication instead of emails. So if someone claims that HN doesn't like emails and get downvoted for that, they got triggered.
digi_owl 9y ago
On that note, a while back while browsing f-droid i noticed someone working on a email based IM app. Never mind that "text messaging" in say Japan has been email based since virtually forever, since the SMS standard had issues with Japanese script.
abiox 9y ago
trashing a community doesn't often get upvotes. perhaps if you were really funny or clever about it.

Tharkun 9y ago

I'm having a really hard time getting my friends to email me. They want me to use awful garbage like FB Messenger or Whatsapp instead.

gkya 9y ago
Sometimes one needs to adapt to the outer world :) I use Whatsapp even though I hate instant messaging and phone calls (I like communicating at my own pace when not face-to-face, and I dislike any sorts of smalltalk on the phone or messaging), because communication is a two-way street, and sometimes conforming is easier. I disable last-online and blue ticks in Whatsapp so it's more e-mail like, definitely improves the experience.

kcorbitt 9y ago

Eh. If you were to measure the percentage of personal communication that users of this forum conduct over email as opposed to other mediums (Whatsapp, FB Messenger, iMessage, etc.), I bet you'd find it indexes way higher than the general population.

erikbye 9y ago

Email is the pinnacle of human communication. Without notifications, which I, of course, do not use, email is the least intrusive and least disrupting way someone can contact me. I simply check my email when I feel like it, which is about two times daily, morning and sometime late evening. Then, even when I look at my email, I don't have to respond. I don't have to do anything. And if there's an email I want to reply to, I won't necessarily do so right now. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe never. The best part is the record of all communications and the fact that you have a searchable archive. Man, I wish I could search all my other conversations with people. In fact, I think I should just start recording everything, every day, all the time, and convert the audio to text.

gsich 9y ago
It is also the pinnacle of interoperability. Nowadays, two apps in the appstore can't send messages between each other, because reasons. With email you have compatibility between so many vendors, devices, programs, programming languages ... everything is compatible. It is THE standard.
u801e 9y ago
> Email is the pinnacle of human communication. For one to one or one to many types of communication, I agree. Email, in my opinion, breaks down when there's a discussion amongst multiple people. For instance, you have to make sure that everyone in the discussion addresses are added by your MUA before clicking the reply button (or using the equivalent keyboard command). The other problem is that if you need to include a new person in an existing discussion, they won't have any of the previous messages to refer to (other than what happens to be quoted in the email they receive). Newsgroups, on the other hand, address the issues I mentioned and are just as good as email in communication IMO.
spc476 9y ago
There's a chap by the name of Ted Nelson who's been working on that for the past 50 years. Unfortunately, the problem is a bit harder than it looks.
keithpeter 9y ago
"In fact, I think I should just start recording everything, every day, all the time, and convert the audio to text." About a decade or perhaps 15 years ago in Birmingham UK, the Ikon gallery had a multi-artist exhibition of a conceptual nature. one of the artists had used a micro-cassette recorder to record every word he uttered over a week and then had the tapes transcribed by audio-typists. The results where exhibited as an impressively high stack of A4 sheets. Unfortunately, they were, apart from a few sample sheets on the wall, piled in a glass case thus preventing viewers from sampling the text. I was taking bets on the sheets that were hidden from view being blank. The artist also exhibited the micro-cassette recorder and tapes used. Google has nothing to say about the exhibit, but it has to be said my memory is a bit short on key words. A sibling post mentioned Ted Nelson.