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> Depression has to be about something more than just beliefs; it has to be something fundamental to the nervous system. Is he saying thoughts and beliefs aren

> Depression has to be about something more than just beliefs; it has to be something fundamental to the nervous system. Is he saying thoughts and beliefs aren't fundamental to the nervous system/CNS/brain? What if people get depressed because their lives suck and they had a shitty childhood? Also, why are women twice as likely to get depressed than men?[0] If "happiness is the derivative of neural confidence"... then do men have more neural confidence? [0] http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/in-depth/depression/art-20047725 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/in-...

musage 9y ago
> Not only became adaption to the given reality the goal of development, but the pathological was seen as a failure to adapt to reality. The validity of that reality was not questioned. The sick carried the blame for being sick. That the pathological could sometimes be the only way to maintain autonomy itself in the face of pseudo-social realities was completely outside the ken of such a mode of thought. -- Arno Gruen, "The Betrayal of the Self" That people get depressed or sick in other ways isn't terribly surprising. Look at the world we're making for ourselves and others to live in. It's like toddlers getting sick when crawling on a floor so dirty you can hardly see the floor, and if our first and only reaction is to ask why would the toddler get sick and what kind of protective clothing could they wear, because we're unwilling to face those shitting on the floor, it does not take a scientist to see what's going on. Putting your head over a microscope like an ostrich is what's required to not see it. Yes, there are actual intricate mechanisms. Just like there are for getting infected in an environment full of pathogens. I'm not even saying they are not interesting or worth studying and quantifying and whatnot. Microscopes are useful, for some things essential. But sometimes the lame, boring answer, like "the world is still too unjust, too many children get abused or neglected in so many ways, often enough because their parents get trampled on, too", is the correct one, that is, it's the correct first part, it requires then acting on that. Until that sentence is no longer true. It's like a spoon to a soup; whoever told you using a fork is more elegant is trapped and trying to trap you.
theptip 9y ago
> What if people get depressed because their lives suck and they had a shitty childhood? But people don't only get depressed because of those things; plenty of people's "lives suck" who aren't depressed, and plenty of people with good lives _are_ depressed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder says: "The cause is believed to be a combination of genetic, environmental, and psychological factors.... About 40% of the risk appears to be related to genetics." So yes, thoughts and beliefs are part of depression, but they certainly don't explain all of it.
- eradicatethots 9y ago
  Beliefs are passed down like genes.
  - jschwartzi 9y ago
    This is true in the case of my family. My brother and I learned how the world worked from my parents, and it's taken years for me to unlearn what they taught me instead of some actually useful beliefs.
  - theptip 9y ago
    True, but you can't unlearn your genes (yet).
david-cako 9y ago
Dopamine and norepinephrine dysfunction exists heavily in men too. ADHD is significantly over-represented in males. I think the added serotonin dysfunction is more prevalent in women, and the resulting condition manifests differently.

musage 9y ago

> Not only became adaption to the given reality the goal of development, but the pathological was seen as a failure to adapt to reality. The validity of that reality was not questioned. The sick carried the blame for being sick. That the pathological could sometimes be the only way to maintain autonomy itself in the face of pseudo-social realities was completely outside the ken of such a mode of thought. -- Arno Gruen, "The Betrayal of the Self" That people get depressed or sick in other ways isn't terribly surprising. Look at the world we're making for ourselves and others to live in. It's like toddlers getting sick when crawling on a floor so dirty you can hardly see the floor, and if our first and only reaction is to ask why would the toddler get sick and what kind of protective clothing could they wear, because we're unwilling to face those shitting on the floor, it does not take a scientist to see what's going on. Putting your head over a microscope like an ostrich is what's required to not see it. Yes, there are actual intricate mechanisms. Just like there are for getting infected in an environment full of pathogens. I'm not even saying they are not interesting or worth studying and quantifying and whatnot. Microscopes are useful, for some things essential. But sometimes the lame, boring answer, like "the world is still too unjust, too many children get abused or neglected in so many ways, often enough because their parents get trampled on, too", is the correct one, that is, it's the correct first part, it requires then acting on that. Until that sentence is no longer true. It's like a spoon to a soup; whoever told you using a fork is more elegant is trapped and trying to trap you.

theptip 9y ago

> What if people get depressed because their lives suck and they had a shitty childhood? But people don't only get depressed because of those things; plenty of people's "lives suck" who aren't depressed, and plenty of people with good lives _are_ depressed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder says: "The cause is believed to be a combination of genetic, environmental, and psychological factors.... About 40% of the risk appears to be related to genetics." So yes, thoughts and beliefs are part of depression, but they certainly don't explain all of it.

eradicatethots 9y ago
Beliefs are passed down like genes.
- jschwartzi 9y ago
  This is true in the case of my family. My brother and I learned how the world worked from my parents, and it's taken years for me to unlearn what they taught me instead of some actually useful beliefs.
- theptip 9y ago
  True, but you can't unlearn your genes (yet).

david-cako 9y ago

Dopamine and norepinephrine dysfunction exists heavily in men too. ADHD is significantly over-represented in males. I think the added serotonin dysfunction is more prevalent in women, and the resulting condition manifests differently.